[kai]

Hello!

Another amateur question of mine.

No worries, I like your critical thinking!

I've read on some websites, including references to some reddit pages and some pages on fmatalk that there existed a historical Filipino (specifically Ilonggo) adaptation and variant of the Indonesian Karambit. And that depending on dialect, in can either be called a Lugod, Luhok or Lihok. It was a fish gutting knife as some say, and that the ring pommel was some sort of string instead and whatnot.

A double edged would make a rather bad fish gutting knife...
And even with tuna-sized fish specimens, folks across the globe seem to do well with multipurpose knives rather than having to resort to spending more money on specialized blades!

I am interested in researching for this specific type of historical Filipino karambit variant in the form of antique samples of such Filipino karambits I'm looking for, but all I see on the internet are merely text descriptive references of what it supposedly looks like and are all inconsistent.

I also noticed the apparent absence of genuinely antique examples from the whole region. However, I have not systematically searched for Filipino examples though. I believe we need to consult Lorenz for an update on the current status regarding this issue!

Some say that the Filipino historical karambit is supposedly shorter and stubbier than the original Indonesian one, others say it is longer while others say that it is double edged and that's what makes it different, I have no idea. Everytime I attempt to research for a picture of an antique historical Filipino karambit variant, I see pictures of literal Indonesian Karambits or pictures of modern looking made Karambits.

Short & stubby sounds more like the modern examples from the Malay Peninsula.

Many say it's real, that it existed, including a respected Ilonggo FMA practitioner I once read into some time ago who studies Filipino blades said that it exists. But I see no antiques of such things ever even uploaded on the internet for me to see, to the point I'm starting to doubt in the back of my mind, that Filipinos probably never had a Karambit counterpart history, not just modern FMA adapting Karambit recently, because I can't find the evidence to it.

One would expect the Moro to have enough Malay contacts (including fairly intense interaction with Sumatran communities) to know about these blades. However, even from here I don't know of any antique example.

Even sickle-like blades don't seem to be that common. There sure are a few agricultural blades like the tuba knives which could also be utilized in a pinch.

The verdict is, did a traditional Filipino Karambit ever exist? And if it did, what is the difference between the Filipino Karambit and the original Indonesian ones?

I for one will wait for an antique to surface before worrying too much about contemporary MA lore. It should also be noted that, at least in the US, there was quite some interaction between Silat and FMA...

There is one caveat though: While pieces may get passed on within families, traditional FMA practitioners I've been in contact with seem to despise of collecting old blades, especially from fallen foes or family alike. Such a notion will not really help to preserve cultural artefacts.

Regards,
Kai