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Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Wonderfully authoritative and informative insight, especially in the perspective that there is more consistency in forms of spears and lances throughout the Arab world. I have always regarded that definition as far broader in definition than Arabia alone, as the Arabs of course populated many other places significantly.
With the terms noted Rumh, Shalfa and Gena, it seems these are indeed proper terms used, however, though I am no linguist, there does not seem to be any documented or reliable etymological explanation for loan words used locally, or in various contexts.
For example, Elgood notes terms used to describe various swords (by blades it seems typically) as the term 'shintayan' MAY refer to St. Etienne(France); or the term 'majar' MAY refer to 'Hungarian' (blades often seen on swords in Arabia), while 'al Hindi' of course refers to Indian.
Is it not possible that colloquially, in this manner of loan words describing certain character of a weapon or even origin of a term might extend in the same manner to 'rumh' as rumi' . Often such uses are nearly impossible to detect etymologically, as has often been seen in countless examples.
With the extension of the term for spear/lance colloquially, in military contexts, as I know Ibrahiim is deeply familiar, terms are often used toward weapons in slang or vernular use which are obviously not the proper one for the weapon. A heavy machine gun is often termed a 'saw', while obviously not the cutting tool..and so on . As the Rumh was a traditional weapon used by tribesmen, why would such troops not use a traditional term colloquially referring to their rifles?
Clearly these kinds of uses are not known to many, nor commonly, outside such military circles, and are not documented accordingly.
It is interesting to see perspective from clearly different sides, and to be able to learn more from them. I am under the impression that Bedouin tribes vary dramatically throughout the regions they occupy, and am curious about not only the terms they would use for these type weapons, which also vary in use and form as well.
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Jim,
I understand the confusion from a non Arab speaker's position. But beyond that, even with minimal ability to read Arab letters is enough to dismiss this absurdity.
For a comparison, this connection between Rumi and Rumh sounds as ridiculous as claiming the word 'sword' originates from the word 'sweet' simply because the first two letters are the same. There is simply no chance. The word Rumh is not a loan word. It is very much a codified word that has mention in Arab literature through out history.
Edition:
As some may know, Arabic words tend to have an origin word. The word Rumh رمح happens to be one. From this origin word comes many other words including verbs and nouns. that can be easily looked up in any Arabic dictionary. The absurdity of claiming an original Arabic word for the most basic and oldest of weapons in human history to be an abbreviation of Rum is absurd. It also sends forth all forms of misinformation, did the Arabs discover the spear through the Romans? let this sink in for a little bit.
Also, another missed bit of misinformation is claiming Rum refers to Rome. Anyone with a basic read through Islamic history and Arab terminology knows that when Rum is mentioned geographically it refers to the land now known as Turkey. And as people, it refers to the Eastern Roman Empire.