Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ian · 2nd January 2022, 02:06 AM

Sajen, Kai, Athanase:

I think we are all acknowledging a combination of styles with this piece and its scabbard. There seems general agreement that the scabbard is of Malay/Sulu manufacture, and is not consistent with a Javanese origin. The hilt is also somewhat atypical for a keris.

The blade has produced more diverse opinions. Some of us see keris, others see an early or precursor Malay/Moro kris. Perhaps both views are correct! Does it look like some keris? Yes. Does it look like an early prototype of Moro kris? Possibly.

It is widely believed that the Moro kris was derived from the Indonesian keris. Personally, I can see how a keris, such as the one shown here by Detlef, could be the basis for an archaic form of the Moro kris, which tended to be shorter (about 18 to 20 in. overall) than later versions.

I think Kai is correct when he says that this particular example may not be old enough to represent an actual transition form from keris to kris. However, something like it might well have been.

2nd January 2022, 02:06 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,039	Sajen, Kai, Athanase: I think we are all acknowledging a combination of styles with this piece and its scabbard. There seems general agreement that the scabbard is of Malay/Sulu manufacture, and is not consistent with a Javanese origin. The hilt is also somewhat atypical for a keris. The blade has produced more diverse opinions. Some of us see keris, others see an early or precursor Malay/Moro kris. Perhaps both views are correct! Does it look like some keris? Yes. Does it look like an early prototype of Moro kris? Possibly. It is widely believed that the Moro kris was derived from the Indonesian keris. Personally, I can see how a keris, such as the one shown here by Detlef, could be the basis for an archaic form of the Moro kris, which tended to be shorter (about 18 to 20 in. overall) than later versions. I think Kai is correct when he says that this particular example may not be old enough to represent an actual transition form from keris to kris. However, something like it might well have been.