Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Arms & armour in Californian Spanish missions

Marc · 19th February 2006, 11:09 PM

Well, not to rain in anyone's parade, but... well, judging exclusively by the pictures, I would say that the authenticity of the collection of weapons presented there is more than suspect. I won't say anything about the musket, as I can't see enough of it to pass a judgement, but the rest of items... well, to start with the typology of the helmet (technically, a cabasset) and the swept-hilt swords is 16th. - early 17th centuries, not 18th by any means. To this, only add that the swords are in fact modern decorative replicas, industrially produced. The blades are made out of sheet metal, with the edges slightly sharpened, and sometimes etched, frequently with the legend "Colada del Cid", after a sword in the Royal Armouries at Madrid that at some point was thought to have belonged to the 11th c. Spanish warrior Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, El Cid Campeador. Curiously, such attribution was very clearly debunked at the end of the 19th c. and there's no doubt about it in the academic circles, but on the more popular level it somewhat stuck, don't really know why. This sword has been reproduced for the great part of the 20th. century by the Toledo manufacturers of decorative swords, and in fact are still in production:

The exemplars shown here have obviously been badly neglected, but I'm afraid their oxidation alone isn't enough to classify them as antiques. The cabasset looks also suspiciously like some nickel-plated exemplars also sold as decorative items, but truth is that with the picture alone not much else can be said. Also, the crossbow is not only an anachronism, but, once more, quite similar to some of those sold as decorative. Again, not enough clear data to say much more.
The sabre is a 19th c. one, French or French-inspired, although there's a Spanish pattern very similar to this one, I should check my references.

In short, can't really comment about the rest of the items (I seem to distinguish an adarga or leather shield of a Dragón de Cuera, mestizo troops that patrolled the frontiers of New Spain until the independence of these countries, also, the painting behind the sword and the sabre might represent a member of this corps), but at least regarding bladed weaponry this display seem to be more show than testimonial...

19th February 2006, 11:09 PM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Well, not to rain in anyone's parade, but... well, judging exclusively by the pictures, I would say that the authenticity of the collection of weapons presented there is more than suspect. I won't say anything about the musket, as I can't see enough of it to pass a judgement, but the rest of items... well, to start with the typology of the helmet (technically, a cabasset) and the swept-hilt swords is 16th. - early 17th centuries, not 18th by any means. To this, only add that the swords are in fact modern decorative replicas, industrially produced. The blades are made out of sheet metal, with the edges slightly sharpened, and sometimes etched, frequently with the legend "Colada del Cid", after a sword in the Royal Armouries at Madrid that at some point was thought to have belonged to the 11th c. Spanish warrior Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, El Cid Campeador. Curiously, such attribution was very clearly debunked at the end of the 19th c. and there's no doubt about it in the academic circles, but on the more popular level it somewhat stuck, don't really know why. This sword has been reproduced for the great part of the 20th. century by the Toledo manufacturers of decorative swords, and in fact are still in production: The exemplars shown here have obviously been badly neglected, but I'm afraid their oxidation alone isn't enough to classify them as antiques. The cabasset looks also suspiciously like some nickel-plated exemplars also sold as decorative items, but truth is that with the picture alone not much else can be said. Also, the crossbow is not only an anachronism, but, once more, quite similar to some of those sold as decorative. Again, not enough clear data to say much more. The sabre is a 19th c. one, French or French-inspired, although there's a Spanish pattern very similar to this one, I should check my references. In short, can't really comment about the rest of the items (I seem to distinguish an adarga or leather shield of a Dragón de Cuera, mestizo troops that patrolled the frontiers of New Spain until the independence of these countries, also, the painting behind the sword and the sabre might represent a member of this corps), but at least regarding bladed weaponry this display seem to be more show than testimonial...