Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - quadara

ariel · 25th June 2006, 06:20 PM

Rivkin,
I think this is a first-rate analysis! Well researched, supported by references and thoughtful.
Circassians and Daghestanis emigrated from the Caucasus en masse after the Russian conquest (with not a benign encouragement from the new "masters" who transplanted ethnic Russians and Cossacks to the abandoned territories) and went to Turkey. From there they were sent to the Balkans, Iraq and Arabia proper. Whereas the decorations were locally-influenced, the general form of the Kindjal remained stable in all of the above areas and well beyond them.
The earlier influx of Caucasians both to Persia and the Ottoman empire predated this immigration by several centuries.
In general, Persian Empire always depended on foreighners as soldiers and on ethnic Persians as administrators.
Look at Chodynski's chapter in "Orez perski" ( "The sun and the lion: sketches of Persian militaria"):
In the Sassanian Empire with its capital in Bokhara, the military was mainly Afghani Ghaznavids (forming the elite "wedge" in the middle of the army formation.
The bulk of Persian military at that time were Turkish gulams, followed by the Hindu infantry and cavalry, and "...the least effective group were the Tadjik divisions consisting mainlly of Iranians".
Safavid Shah Ismail ( whose grandmother was Bysantian princess Despina) also had an army consisting mainly of Turkish gulams. By the way, iron ore was imported by him from Ossetia (Caucasus) and that was likely the early route of Kindjal penetration into Persia.
Abbas the Great 's army " ...consisted of Armenian, Circassian and Georgian divisions": another source of origin of Kindjals. Giorgi Saakadze, a Georgian , was in command of Abbas' forces conquering Baghdad and Kandahar.
Overall, I fully agree: Kindjal was a proto-Caucasian weapon and was adopted by Persians, Ottomans and other groups that came in contact with Caucasian nations. The names they gave to this weapon are immaterial: Qame, Qaddara etc were just local monikers.
The hypothesis of Azeri influence on Ashura is particularly interesting.
Currently, about 25% of the total population in Iran are ethnic (Turkic )Azeris ( and, by the way, there is quite a lot of unrest among them
http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2371133 )

25th June 2006, 06:20 PM	#17
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Rivkin, I think this is a first-rate analysis! Well researched, supported by references and thoughtful. Circassians and Daghestanis emigrated from the Caucasus en masse after the Russian conquest (with not a benign encouragement from the new "masters" who transplanted ethnic Russians and Cossacks to the abandoned territories) and went to Turkey. From there they were sent to the Balkans, Iraq and Arabia proper. Whereas the decorations were locally-influenced, the general form of the Kindjal remained stable in all of the above areas and well beyond them. The earlier influx of Caucasians both to Persia and the Ottoman empire predated this immigration by several centuries. In general, Persian Empire always depended on foreighners as soldiers and on ethnic Persians as administrators. Look at Chodynski's chapter in "Orez perski" ( "The sun and the lion: sketches of Persian militaria"): In the Sassanian Empire with its capital in Bokhara, the military was mainly Afghani Ghaznavids (forming the elite "wedge" in the middle of the army formation. The bulk of Persian military at that time were Turkish gulams, followed by the Hindu infantry and cavalry, and "...the least effective group were the Tadjik divisions consisting mainlly of Iranians". Safavid Shah Ismail ( whose grandmother was Bysantian princess Despina) also had an army consisting mainly of Turkish gulams. By the way, iron ore was imported by him from Ossetia (Caucasus) and that was likely the early route of Kindjal penetration into Persia. Abbas the Great 's army " ...consisted of Armenian, Circassian and Georgian divisions": another source of origin of Kindjals. Giorgi Saakadze, a Georgian , was in command of Abbas' forces conquering Baghdad and Kandahar. Overall, I fully agree: Kindjal was a proto-Caucasian weapon and was adopted by Persians, Ottomans and other groups that came in contact with Caucasian nations. The names they gave to this weapon are immaterial: Qame, Qaddara etc were just local monikers. The hypothesis of Azeri influence on Ashura is particularly interesting. Currently, about 25% of the total population in Iran are ethnic (Turkic )Azeris ( and, by the way, there is quite a lot of unrest among them http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2371133 )