Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2019, 05:02 PM

They are sincerely meant Kubur, you make insightful observations and always prompt more careful consideration in talking points in discussion. While you are more receptive to these groups of swords being from Spanish colonies in the America's...………..I have thought more on your example and think you must be correct, these may have been reproduced in degree in Morocco. The volume of their presence there may well have prompted these more ostentatious forms with silver and well embellished.

In retrospect, over the years I have seen other examples like the one you have shown in similar dress, but none I recall were jeweled. In these North African settings it does seem well established that various sword forms prompted a certain degree of reproduction if nothing but for their familiarity. Your example is a superb instance, especially in that it carries one of the blades from the Spanish colonial regions.

Rather than being 'commissioned' as I suggested, I would take more to your suggestion of these being hilted or produced in some degree in these Moroccan regions in perhaps an intent for sale. Either to local figures as status oriented accoutrements, or perhaps souvenirs, often these instances of course transcend, as locals often sell their weapons to visitors on request.
This presents an element of context to the purchaser, rather than buying it in a souk.....but naturally both venues are present.

In reconsidering the Buttin work I previously had not thought of the period of the catalog, and indeed, those curious Tunisian swords which have been observed consistently in recent years appear seem to have been quite distinctly oriented from those regions, and are not represented in his catalogs. His period of study while residing in Morocco lasted many years, however this was some time before his catalogs were published by his son posthumously in 1933. As these, and the Spanish colonial swords in discussion seem to occur later in these regions, they were probably not included in his holdings while active.

Thank you for these most constructive and helpful responses Kubur, I think we are getting much more perspective on these interesting weapons.

23rd January 2019, 05:02 PM	#36
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	They are sincerely meant Kubur, you make insightful observations and always prompt more careful consideration in talking points in discussion. While you are more receptive to these groups of swords being from Spanish colonies in the America's...………..I have thought more on your example and think you must be correct, these may have been reproduced in degree in Morocco. The volume of their presence there may well have prompted these more ostentatious forms with silver and well embellished. In retrospect, over the years I have seen other examples like the one you have shown in similar dress, but none I recall were jeweled. In these North African settings it does seem well established that various sword forms prompted a certain degree of reproduction if nothing but for their familiarity. Your example is a superb instance, especially in that it carries one of the blades from the Spanish colonial regions. Rather than being 'commissioned' as I suggested, I would take more to your suggestion of these being hilted or produced in some degree in these Moroccan regions in perhaps an intent for sale. Either to local figures as status oriented accoutrements, or perhaps souvenirs, often these instances of course transcend, as locals often sell their weapons to visitors on request. This presents an element of context to the purchaser, rather than buying it in a souk.....but naturally both venues are present. In reconsidering the Buttin work I previously had not thought of the period of the catalog, and indeed, those curious Tunisian swords which have been observed consistently in recent years appear seem to have been quite distinctly oriented from those regions, and are not represented in his catalogs. His period of study while residing in Morocco lasted many years, however this was some time before his catalogs were published by his son posthumously in 1933. As these, and the Spanish colonial swords in discussion seem to occur later in these regions, they were probably not included in his holdings while active. Thank you for these most constructive and helpful responses Kubur, I think we are getting much more perspective on these interesting weapons.