[A. G. Maisey]

One of my flaws is that I tend to suffer from the Mark Twain syndrome:- I lack the ability to express myself clearly in only a few words. I recognise that I suffer from this defect of ability, so it really is inexcusable when I dash off a few lines and expect others to understand clearly what I mean. But still, I do this from time to time, and it looks as if my post #23 is one such occasion.

Gustav:-

My statement as quoted was in support of your statement, it was not in opposition.

In respect of the time frame. The second half of the 19th century is not very long ago. Most especially in many areas of the Indonesian Archipelago the late 1800's could be regarded as being on the fringes of European influence. Even in Bali where a policy of active exclusion of outsiders was practiced, technology was not necessarily excluded from consideration.

My personal perspective is that probably any time after about 1800 most developed areas of the Indonesian Archipelago were already on the fringes of European technological culture. I do not regard the 1800's as a part of the distant past.

Barry:-

My mention of dentist's drills was a generality that was intended to imply all means known in the geographic area concerned for the carving of hard materials.

At the present time craftsmen in Jawa & Bali use all sorts of electric grinders:- die grinders, dremels, bench mounted electric drills, and of course dentists drills. These are examples I have seen in use, but undoubtedly other such tools exist that are put to use carving hard materials.

Historically in Jawa, Bali and I guess other parts of Indonesia, grinders that were powered by a long springy sapling and operated by a foot treadle were used for carving hard materials. This sort of power grinder goes back at the very least to early colonial times, but it was still being used in Bali in 1982.

If we are talking about a relatively settled area of the Indonesian Archipelago after the mid-1800's, then a treadle driven dentist drill is most certainly not out of the question as a tool that was available to advanced craftsmen.

Sumatera was not as developed in a lot of ways as was Jawa, but although thick forest made land transport difficult at that time, sea and river transport was freely available, and the centres of administration were well established.

If we consider Minangkabau lands in particular, what we know is that the men of the Minangkabau were traders who moved across established trade routes that took them far afield. The Minangkabau people are historically very well educated, very progressive and intellectually aggressive. Technology in Minangkabau lands would have been no stranger.

Yes, in various locations very hard materials have been carved at various times, and in the far distant past, but we are not talking about Mesoamerica, nor China, nor India. We are talking about the Indonesian Archipelago, and to the best of my knowledge the extremely lengthy techniques involved in carving crystal skulls and jade artefacts were not employed amongst the peoples of this geographic location.

There is another factor in play here that I'd like to address also.

This pervasive and oft encountered idea that all materials, all decorative motifs , all artistic endeavour must be endowed with some sort of talismanic quality.

This is simply not the case.

As Barry has pointed out, new and unusual, and attractive materials are frequently used in the production of artefacts merely for their own inherent qualities.

Motifs are developed and used for purely decorative purposes.

Certainly, traditional motifs may at one time have had some talismanic or symbolic intent, but with the passing of time this original meaning is lost and the motif continues to be used for purely decorative purposes. This applies in all cultures and societies that have moved past the developmental stage that saw the need for symbolic or talismanic intent.

I apologise for writing at length on such insignificant matters, but hopefully what I have written above will not be misunderstood.