Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 22nd February 2010, 10:17 AM

Brekele, from your posts I have formed the opinion that you are very familiar with the Madurese language and with Madurese keris related terminology .

You have told us that the name used in Madura for the type of warangka shown here is either deng udengan or urang urangan.

I have noted that over the last 10 or 15 years names and attributes used by some sellers of principally Madurese keris have varied from names and attributes that I became acquainted with in the years between 1985 and 1995, when I visited both Sumenep and Pamekesan on a number of occasions

For instance, at that time, the capu kagok form of ladrangan warangka was acknowledged as a legitimate Madurese form, shared with Surakarta, however, now I find that some people wish to place this form in East Jawa, and call it an East Javanese Ladrangan.

The Sumenep Ladrangan form was referred to as a Ladrangan back prior to 1995, however, I now find that some people want to call it Daunan --- in other words, a warangka with a "daun", referring to the wide leaf shaped projection of a ladrangan warangka.

During my visits to Sumenep I visited the Karaton musium on a number of occasions. In that musium there were examples of various types of warangkas attributable to Sumenep. Two of those warangkas were identified as "gabilan", and "brahmana rsi". These warangka types were the only types on display with heavily carved atasans, and the most easily recognisable difference between them was that the brahmana rsi form was a little larger than the gabilan form.

Before reading your recent posts, I would have been inclined to identify the warangkas shown in posts 1, 7, 18, and 19 as gabilan, and the warangka shown in post 5 as sandang walikat.

Now, my question to you is this:-

can you please explain the difference between the warangkas that you have identified as either deng udengan or urang urangan, and the warangkas of the forms gabilan and brahmana rsi

or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation?

a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ?

As your knowledge of the Madurese language is clearly far in advance of my own, and I assume most other people here, I would greatly appreciate it if could clarify this matter for us.

Thank you.

22nd February 2010, 10:17 AM	#23
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Brekele, from your posts I have formed the opinion that you are very familiar with the Madurese language and with Madurese keris related terminology . You have told us that the name used in Madura for the type of warangka shown here is either deng udengan or urang urangan. I have noted that over the last 10 or 15 years names and attributes used by some sellers of principally Madurese keris have varied from names and attributes that I became acquainted with in the years between 1985 and 1995, when I visited both Sumenep and Pamekesan on a number of occasions For instance, at that time, the capu kagok form of ladrangan warangka was acknowledged as a legitimate Madurese form, shared with Surakarta, however, now I find that some people wish to place this form in East Jawa, and call it an East Javanese Ladrangan. The Sumenep Ladrangan form was referred to as a Ladrangan back prior to 1995, however, I now find that some people want to call it Daunan --- in other words, a warangka with a "daun", referring to the wide leaf shaped projection of a ladrangan warangka. During my visits to Sumenep I visited the Karaton musium on a number of occasions. In that musium there were examples of various types of warangkas attributable to Sumenep. Two of those warangkas were identified as "gabilan", and "brahmana rsi". These warangka types were the only types on display with heavily carved atasans, and the most easily recognisable difference between them was that the brahmana rsi form was a little larger than the gabilan form. Before reading your recent posts, I would have been inclined to identify the warangkas shown in posts 1, 7, 18, and 19 as gabilan, and the warangka shown in post 5 as sandang walikat. Now, my question to you is this:- can you please explain the difference between the warangkas that you have identified as either deng udengan or urang urangan, and the warangkas of the forms gabilan and brahmana rsi or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation? a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ? As your knowledge of the Madurese language is clearly far in advance of my own, and I assume most other people here, I would greatly appreciate it if could clarify this matter for us. Thank you.