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Old 2nd February 2018, 05:43 PM   #9
Roland_M
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I was not able to answer earlier, I have a flu and I`m totally exhausted from the polishing of the Shamshir, sorry.

"If you simply hit the target with a direct blow, you won't achieve the cutting effect (and that's exIactly what happened in your test)."
Marius, you are right, a diagonal movement increases the effectiveness of the blow significantly. I also tried this out and diagonal movement on a slightliy curved blade make the cut go deeper by ~50%.
I made this thest also with some very sharp straight Indonesian short swords, no problem to cut the cartonage without diagonal movement. But never as deep as the Shamshir. The flexibility is also important, the M52 is pretty flexible, the Shamshir is much stiffer.

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"Persian shamshirs are chiefly a cavalry weapon, and I think this is the main reason they look like this. The velocity of leading to impact comes mainly from the movement of the horse, not of the arm and is therefore much too powerful for a normal, man to man sword. In fact, I think it is usable, but not very effective as a duel weapon."

Yes, the Shamshir is clearly a battlefield and mainly cavalry weapon.
As a duell weapon the Shamshir is in a bad position against a rapier or long small sword for example.
But dont underestimate the Shamshir with boots on the ground!
Despite its weight the blade is astonishing fast and agile. The Shamshir is much faster than a straight sword of the same length and weight and even faster than a Kilij of the same dimensions. I cannot explain this in detail. So against a European longsword of same dimensions the Shamshir is in a relatively good position! Also against a Katana. The horse clearly got some influence on the speed of the blade but my arm is very much faster than a horse. I know there was a technique with the galloping horse forced in a fast 180° turn with its hind legs. This leads to a significant improvement of the blow. The Shamshir is also one of the most or the most effective cutting sword without a horse. There are videos on youtube with ancient ground techniques. But without question it is mainly a cavalry weapon.
As I said to Marius, diagonal movement on a slightliy curved blade make the cut go deeper by ~50%, maybe a little more. But without diagonal movement a sharp curved blade still cuts very well. You can do cuts with diagonal movement without a horse but it makes the blow much more difficult and complex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8kquKxejSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBkrSL73kk

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"Also with a shamshir, there is a technique of bringing the sword around your head inside the curve quickly"
My technique in the sound file is leaned on a German Knight blow from medieval sources (the ox), which starts behind the head.

"I've not seen much engineering analysis of sword performance along the lines you describe."
Next thing I will try is a modern FEM (finite element method)-analysis. I did this last time ten years ago but if I`m successful, this would be a hard evidence. It is quite difficult to describe the Shamshir in senceful technical terms, because in our modern industry there is no thing like a Shamshir. I´m a specialist for aerodynamics, so your baseball would have been very interesting for me. If the ball is twisting during the flight, the aerodynamic is of great importance.

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"The European example seems to start with a straight blade (some distortion from the wide-angle lens photography?), the more strongly curved mid section, and a weak curve towards the tip (definitely not straight) - thus, I see at least 2 curves at play here."
It starts with a straight part because somehow you have to fix the handle.
And yes the last few inches before the point are a little straighter but this got no significant influence.
"how do you define separate curves? "
Sorry, this is obviously to see and I also highlighted it.
"BTW, have you determined the center of gravity, sweet spot, blade nodes, pivot points, etc.?"
Yes I detemined the center of gravity and what is a sweet spot?

"A comparison with the European "repro shamshir" will probably prove to be more interesting than with the M52 (the latter being an almost straight sword with a minor kink... )"
I clearly will not waste my money for a Cold Steel Shamshir. And what is the sence to compare a Shamshir with a Shamshir? This is why i said, the comparison is not 100% meaningful but we see complete destruction against a minor dent in the cartonage.


Roland
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