Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd February 2014, 08:25 AM

Salaams All. Note to Library.

One question hangs over the location in which a presentation of an Indonesian Kris and ostensibly a Sri Lankan Kastane (hybrid?) was made to Hasekura...Where and when was this? No mention is made of the fact when he achieved an audience with King Philip III.

Would this presention have been logical insofar as we are considering two SE Asian weapons and one with potential Chinese markings on the blade? It doesn't add up.

However during my investigation I turned to the Philippines...viz;

Japan in Philippine history
By Ambeth R. Ocampo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
10:42 pm | Thursday, October 31st, 2013

Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome.

Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines. I was disappointed that no Philippine artifacts were extant. Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines, reports from the Bishop of Cebu and the Archbishop of Manila regarding the rivalry between the Jesuits and the other religious orders doing missionary work in Japan, and reports on the continued persecution of Christians in Japan". Unquote

Thus it appears we may be looking at Chinese influence to a presentation or acquired hybrid Kastane (the fullers and Makara/ Gargoyle style blade mark being key... though the Storta blade may still be in contention etc.

There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=kris+hasekura by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below. Wikepedia carries the same artwork and under it states that they were "acquired" from The Philippines. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga

See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return; Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer (shown above), and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum.

From this picture and fresh timeline /location evidence, it is perhaps relevant to state loosely what we are looking at and viz-a-viz the comparison with the Popham artwork.

Notwithstanding the blades...(although there is probably a complete study within that alone; see note below*) The timescale encompasses the two varied styles of the Kastane Hilt since certainly the Hybrid Kastane at Sendai museum does have a Sri Lankan Hilt ( marked by the obvious Vajra Quillons etc). That Hilt in clear Lion form whilst the Popham, painted from an item of the same time frame, shows a more elaborate Gargoyle/ Serpentine main pommel and grip treatment associated with Buddhist Deity influence.

This suggests broad artistic licence, interpretation and choice of design in the early period of Portuguese involvement in Sri Lanka...and as already reasoned so far which, incidentally, was the main aim of the comparison.

Many thanks to the involved participants so far, with particular emphasis on the fine historical and other input by Prasanna, Jim, Vandoo, Fernando, Gustav and others.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

* The blade looks like a number of styles including Chinese, Storta and in fact some German examples going back to the Falchion era and as outlined by Jim ..Another blade looks similar, the Quderra, however what seems to mark the issue is the blade stamp on one hand and the large serpent like creature identified by me earlier as Makara with a Chinese fuller style as already noted. On balance however it appears that the blade may have been of Storta influence and perhaps worked by a Chinese bladesmith with the design being added .. The influence of an Oriental design feature is certainly more likely in that we may now realize where the blades were obtained during Hasekuras two year stay in The Philippines before returning finally to Japan.

3rd February 2014, 08:25 AM	#267
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	When and where was the Sendai Kastane presented? Salaams All. Note to Library. One question hangs over the location in which a presentation of an Indonesian Kris and ostensibly a Sri Lankan Kastane (hybrid?) was made to Hasekura...Where and when was this? No mention is made of the fact when he achieved an audience with King Philip III. Would this presention have been logical insofar as we are considering two SE Asian weapons and one with potential Chinese markings on the blade? It doesn't add up. However during my investigation I turned to the Philippines...viz; Japan in Philippine history By Ambeth R. Ocampo Philippine Daily Inquirer 10:42 pm \| Thursday, October 31st, 2013 Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome. Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines. I was disappointed that no Philippine artifacts were extant. Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines, reports from the Bishop of Cebu and the Archbishop of Manila regarding the rivalry between the Jesuits and the other religious orders doing missionary work in Japan, and reports on the continued persecution of Christians in Japan". Unquote Thus it appears we may be looking at Chinese influence to a presentation or acquired hybrid Kastane (the fullers and Makara/ Gargoyle style blade mark being key... though the Storta blade may still be in contention etc. There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=kris+hasekura by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below. Wikepedia carries the same artwork and under it states that they were "acquired" from The Philippines. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return; Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer (shown above), and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum. From this picture and fresh timeline /location evidence, it is perhaps relevant to state loosely what we are looking at and viz-a-viz the comparison with the Popham artwork. Notwithstanding the blades...(although there is probably a complete study within that alone; see note below) The timescale encompasses the two varied styles of the Kastane Hilt since certainly the Hybrid Kastane at Sendai museum does have a Sri Lankan Hilt ( marked by the obvious Vajra Quillons etc). That Hilt in clear Lion form whilst the Popham, painted from an item of the same time frame, shows a more elaborate Gargoyle/ Serpentine main pommel and grip treatment associated with Buddhist Deity influence. This suggests broad artistic licence, interpretation and choice of design in the early period of Portuguese involvement in Sri Lanka...and as already reasoned so far which, incidentally, was the main aim of the comparison. Many thanks to the involved participants so far, with particular emphasis on the fine historical and other input by Prasanna, Jim, Vandoo, Fernando, Gustav and others. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. The blade looks like a number of styles including Chinese, Storta and in fact some German examples going back to the Falchion era and as outlined by Jim ..Another blade looks similar, the Quderra, however what seems to mark the issue is the blade stamp on one hand and the large serpent like creature identified by me earlier as Makara with a Chinese fuller style as already noted. On balance however it appears that the blade may have been of Storta influence and perhaps worked by a Chinese bladesmith with the design being added .. The influence of an Oriental design feature is certainly more likely in that we may now realize where the blades were obtained during Hasekuras two year stay in The Philippines before returning finally to Japan. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 3rd February 2014 at 11:56 AM.