Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2021, 09:38 PM

Jaga, you have, I think, provided a platform for discussion, rather than a straightforward, simple question that can be met with a straightforward simple answer.

Further, that platform is loaded.

I could dive headlong into this and in the process antagonise & offend a lot of people.

I'd sooner not do this.

I'm going to assume that you have read this:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/inter...e-keris-page-1

and that you understand what I have written and do not wish to debate anything in this article that has a bearing on your thoughts in respect of the matters you wish to address.

I would also like you to go here:-

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...Maisey&f=false

and read the content of Chapter 6, this has not yet been published, but is scheduled for publication in the USA on 1st. December 2021

In this chapter I have touched on what happened with the Javanese keris after Islam decided that in order to facilitate the replacement of Hindu-Javanese culture with Islamic culture, one of the things that Islam needed to deal with was to change the nature of the keris in Javanese society.

If what I have written in both of these pieces of writing is insufficient for you to form your own opinions in respect of this matter, perhaps you might care to break your enquiries down into simple direct questions that can be addressed in less than 5000 words.

I actually started to write a response to your post last night, but after about 1200 words, I decided that I could not do justice in a public Forum based discussion to the ideas you have formulated.

Break those ideas down into a format that an educated 8 year old child can understand and put them before us one idea at a time, and I think we might have something that has the potential to teach all of us, something of value.

The "8 year old child" idea was given to me many years ago by a well known Australian journalist, I was advised to always try my best to never write anything for public consumption that an 8 year old child could not easily understand. I think this was very good advice, I do not always succeed , but I do try to follow it.

So, I'd like to put the hard stuff that you have set before us, off to one side for the moment.

But you have also asked a couple of uncomplicated things, so I'll try to get rid of those.

You have asked:-

"--- The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker ---

---Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner?
I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together. --- "

For Empu Suparman the respect was limited to only the maker

As you have noted, all keris are not equal. The role of the keris as a link between the perceived world and the hidden world is really only applicable to the pusaka keris of a kin group. In Balinese culture this facet of keris culture is still alive, in Javanese culture the link to ancestors seems to have been considerably watered down. I feel that within some kin groups the acceptance of this link might still be real, in other kin groups I believe this aspect of the keris, both as pusaka and as link to the hidden world has been lost.

I think that as a general principle at the present time, the broad acceptance of the keris as a personal piyandel (a talisman, belief, reliance), is perhaps a more accurate placement in Javanese society of the keris. There is still that connection with the unseen, the esoteric, but not to the same extent, nor in the same way as is the case in Bali. Probably in rural areas, where people are still closer to animism & ancestor worship, the original nature of the keris has stronger recognition than in the Islamised urban setting.

Pauzan Pusposukadgo was one of the first, and one of the most talented keris makers of the modern age. He was also a devout Muslim. He was regarded as an empu keris by the general populace and within Surakarta Karaton society, but he refused to use the title Empu, preferring to style himself as "Pandai Seni Keris".

It was his firm belief that only a person who could bring life to a keris could call himself an Empu Keris. He was a Muslim, a very devout follower of Islam, and for him it was absolutely unthinkable that a human being could bring life into anything. This idea alone was sacrilege, as only God can give life.

So for Pauzan, good, solid Muslim that he was, it was a pretence of Man that anybody with the supposed powers that were attributed to the Empu, could ever have existed.

Nothing made by Man can be greater than Man, and only God can give life.

But on the other side of the page we have the ideas and beliefs of Sufic Islam, which the Javanese adherents of Javanese indigenous belief systems found to be quite acceptable and close to their own beliefs.

Thus, when we consider the entire, convoluted morass of keris belief, what we are left with is a web of interwoven belief systems, and for any true believer in anything, what he believes is indeed true for him. It is all a matter of perception and perspective.

One belief is that a keris, like a shrine, is created empty, but it can be visited by a spiritual entity. So then, perhaps we need to ask if it is legitimate for any lay person to create a shrine, or perhaps further, if something that was not created as a shrine can in time become one. This question again becomes one that is open to belief.

Jaga, if my short response is insufficient for you to be able to find your own answers, I am happy to continue, but only on a step by step basis.

30th November 2021, 09:38 PM	#21
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Jaga, you have, I think, provided a platform for discussion, rather than a straightforward, simple question that can be met with a straightforward simple answer. Further, that platform is loaded. I could dive headlong into this and in the process antagonise & offend a lot of people. I'd sooner not do this. I'm going to assume that you have read this:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/inter...e-keris-page-1 and that you understand what I have written and do not wish to debate anything in this article that has a bearing on your thoughts in respect of the matters you wish to address. I would also like you to go here:- https://books.google.com.au/books?id...Maisey&f=false and read the content of Chapter 6, this has not yet been published, but is scheduled for publication in the USA on 1st. December 2021 In this chapter I have touched on what happened with the Javanese keris after Islam decided that in order to facilitate the replacement of Hindu-Javanese culture with Islamic culture, one of the things that Islam needed to deal with was to change the nature of the keris in Javanese society. If what I have written in both of these pieces of writing is insufficient for you to form your own opinions in respect of this matter, perhaps you might care to break your enquiries down into simple direct questions that can be addressed in less than 5000 words. I actually started to write a response to your post last night, but after about 1200 words, I decided that I could not do justice in a public Forum based discussion to the ideas you have formulated. Break those ideas down into a format that an educated 8 year old child can understand and put them before us one idea at a time, and I think we might have something that has the potential to teach all of us, something of value. The "8 year old child" idea was given to me many years ago by a well known Australian journalist, I was advised to always try my best to never write anything for public consumption that an 8 year old child could not easily understand. I think this was very good advice, I do not always succeed , but I do try to follow it. So, I'd like to put the hard stuff that you have set before us, off to one side for the moment. But you have also asked a couple of uncomplicated things, so I'll try to get rid of those. You have asked:- "--- The element of "respect" is still there, Empu Suparman used to say it was respect for the maker* ---* ---Do you mean respect for the maker of the keris, by its current custodian or owner? I suppose then this also means respect for all who have taken care of this keris ever since it was made, and the families and groups that it has bound together. --- " For Empu Suparman the respect was limited to only the maker As you have noted, all keris are not equal. The role of the keris as a link between the perceived world and the hidden world is really only applicable to the pusaka keris of a kin group. In Balinese culture this facet of keris culture is still alive, in Javanese culture the link to ancestors seems to have been considerably watered down. I feel that within some kin groups the acceptance of this link might still be real, in other kin groups I believe this aspect of the keris, both as pusaka and as link to the hidden world has been lost. I think that as a general principle at the present time, the broad acceptance of the keris as a personal piyandel (a talisman, belief, reliance), is perhaps a more accurate placement in Javanese society of the keris. There is still that connection with the unseen, the esoteric, but not to the same extent, nor in the same way as is the case in Bali. Probably in rural areas, where people are still closer to animism & ancestor worship, the original nature of the keris has stronger recognition than in the Islamised urban setting. Pauzan Pusposukadgo was one of the first, and one of the most talented keris makers of the modern age. He was also a devout Muslim. He was regarded as an empu keris by the general populace and within Surakarta Karaton society, but he refused to use the title Empu, preferring to style himself as "Pandai Seni Keris". It was his firm belief that only a person who could bring life to a keris could call himself an Empu Keris. He was a Muslim, a very devout follower of Islam, and for him it was absolutely unthinkable that a human being could bring life into anything. This idea alone was sacrilege, as only God can give life. So for Pauzan, good, solid Muslim that he was, it was a pretence of Man that anybody with the supposed powers that were attributed to the Empu, could ever have existed. Nothing made by Man can be greater than Man, and only God can give life. But on the other side of the page we have the ideas and beliefs of Sufic Islam, which the Javanese adherents of Javanese indigenous belief systems found to be quite acceptable and close to their own beliefs. Thus, when we consider the entire, convoluted morass of keris belief, what we are left with is a web of interwoven belief systems, and for any true believer in anything, what he believes is indeed true for him. It is all a matter of perception and perspective. One belief is that a keris, like a shrine, is created empty, but it can be visited by a spiritual entity. So then, perhaps we need to ask if it is legitimate for any lay person to create a shrine, or perhaps further, if something that was not created as a shrine can in time become one. This question again becomes one that is open to belief. Jaga, if my short response is insufficient for you to be able to find your own answers, I am happy to continue, but only on a step by step basis.