Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Matchlock · 11th October 2010, 02:54 PM

Hi Cornelis,

I do not have the least problem with you disagreeing now and then; that's what brings life into our discussions after all.

Nevertheless I am sorry to have to differ from the description of the item you posted yesterday. This is by no means a Katzbalgerdegen but clearly an estoc for horsemen. It's much too long to be toted by an infantry soldier like a Landsknecht; remember Katzbalgers are only about 90 cm long. The open Brezen-Parierstange (pretzel shaped quillons) is not unusual at all for that type of dangerous thrusting weapon of ca. 1540-50

Remember the famous GIECH estoc, an earlier type (ca. 1520) than yours, sold Sotheby's in 1974, and again from the Visser collection in 1990? I attach scans and description. BTW, it fetched 15,000 euro in 1990 and would probably double its price today.

Best,
Michael

11th October 2010, 02:54 PM	#19
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Cornelis, I do not have the least problem with you disagreeing now and then; that's what brings life into our discussions after all. Nevertheless I am sorry to have to differ from the description of the item you posted yesterday. This is by no means a Katzbalgerdegen but clearly an estoc for horsemen. It's much too long to be toted by an infantry soldier like a Landsknecht; remember Katzbalgers are only about 90 cm long. The open Brezen-Parierstange (pretzel shaped quillons) is not unusual at all for that type of dangerous thrusting weapon of ca. 1540-50 Remember the famous GIECH estoc, an earlier type (ca. 1520) than yours, sold Sotheby's in 1974, and again from the Visser collection in 1990? I attach scans and description. BTW, it fetched 15,000 euro in 1990 and would probably double its price today. Best, Michael Attached Images