Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 19th September 2007, 06:26 PM

OK Rick! Its 'Great Game'-o-phobia!!

You're seeing our much discussed Afghan armoury stamp again! Actually though, I think that stamp occurred in a different position on the blades, at least on those Afghan military sabres. It seems it was the cartouche with the Mosque with what appear to be cannons on either side if I recall, and was stamped in the ricasso block nearest the blade edge. I dont think this is the stamp, but as you note, we cant really see it, and I dont recall if that stamp was found on any other weapons or blade locations.

I do agree that this may well be a talwar from those northern regions near Afghanistan, though the actual hilt form favors those typically considered of Rajasthan manufacture. If you recall the thread from last March, by Pukka Bundook ("Bad News Tulwar") where the pretty much trashed blade was beautifully restored by Bundook, and the hilt (though of variant form) had a rivet which was covered by a floral device very similar to this, presuming this to be the original affectation.

That particular talwar with similar placed device seems somewhat associated with this example with the dotted line decor. The Pukka Bundook example was apparantly furbished at some point near Afghan regions, evidenced by the scabbard it was found in, which had the pierced mounts and long, fluted piece at the base, as found with Afghan paluoar scabbards. Perhaps a somewhat stretched association, but still suggesting far north regions.

The stylized semi circle with dot in the floral device on the chowk may suggest the crescent and star as noted, but more research on the symbolism. More typically found in Afghan regions is the full circle enclosing a dot.

Also interesting is the rather 'mechanical' looking lines with dots, which seem, to recall structured metal with rivets, such as in armour. It seems that the Pukka Bundook talwar had on the blade a flourish device inscribed at the beginning of the fuller and was outlined with dot type accent throughout the flourish which itself accented the fuller.This type inscribing was typical on European blades and was probably copied by the armourer, though very crudely from trade or captured examples. It does seem worthy of note in comparison with this unusual motif.

19th September 2007, 06:26 PM	#27
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	OK Rick! Its 'Great Game'-o-phobia!! You're seeing our much discussed Afghan armoury stamp again! Actually though, I think that stamp occurred in a different position on the blades, at least on those Afghan military sabres. It seems it was the cartouche with the Mosque with what appear to be cannons on either side if I recall, and was stamped in the ricasso block nearest the blade edge. I dont think this is the stamp, but as you note, we cant really see it, and I dont recall if that stamp was found on any other weapons or blade locations. I do agree that this may well be a talwar from those northern regions near Afghanistan, though the actual hilt form favors those typically considered of Rajasthan manufacture. If you recall the thread from last March, by Pukka Bundook ("Bad News Tulwar") where the pretty much trashed blade was beautifully restored by Bundook, and the hilt (though of variant form) had a rivet which was covered by a floral device very similar to this, presuming this to be the original affectation. That particular talwar with similar placed device seems somewhat associated with this example with the dotted line decor. The Pukka Bundook example was apparantly furbished at some point near Afghan regions, evidenced by the scabbard it was found in, which had the pierced mounts and long, fluted piece at the base, as found with Afghan paluoar scabbards. Perhaps a somewhat stretched association, but still suggesting far north regions. The stylized semi circle with dot in the floral device on the chowk may suggest the crescent and star as noted, but more research on the symbolism. More typically found in Afghan regions is the full circle enclosing a dot. Also interesting is the rather 'mechanical' looking lines with dots, which seem, to recall structured metal with rivets, such as in armour. It seems that the Pukka Bundook talwar had on the blade a flourish device inscribed at the beginning of the fuller and was outlined with dot type accent throughout the flourish which itself accented the fuller.This type inscribing was typical on European blades and was probably copied by the armourer, though very crudely from trade or captured examples. It does seem worthy of note in comparison with this unusual motif. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 19th September 2007 at 06:40 PM.