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Originally Posted by Dajak
if you have skype and you wanna know more I can tell you true story s that can be verified by people and books
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I guess i don't have skype because i don't know what it is.
To be clear, i do not doubt the metaphysical aspects of the keris, it is what got me so interested to begin with. Metaphysics has been a study of mine much longer than the keris.
I have learned over the years, however, to keep an open yet skeptical mind. Stories "verified" by people and books are still very subjective in nature. They do not display empirical fact. Events that seem very real to one person may in fact have alternative explanations. Stories are also embellished and exaggerated sometimes. It is just our human nature. This does not cause me to disbelieve, only to search further.
I remain even more skeptical of those who set themselves up as "paranormals" who are capable of sensing these powers within the keris when others cannot. If you can't feel and/or access this power yourself what possible good can it be to you? Within any culture with such a magickal/mystical world view as this the likelihood of chalatans taking advantage of hopeful people is magnified 100 times. How many of these "paranormals" will assess the "power" of your keris for free? Again, i don't say this because i doubt the existence of such power. It is just that there will always be individuals ready and willing to take advantage of such belief.
Ben, if you have stories i would encourage you to share them here. That was my purpose in raising these questions, to bring them into a community discussion. I see no reason to swap such stories in private emails.
Frankly, to me the reported powers of the keris seem a bit all over the board. I have a feeling that the original intention was something far more specific. In any discussion of the metaphysical there is bound to be superstition and fairytales thrown into the mix. Some stories i believe are merely legend, other's rooted more in fact. If indeed there are or were keris capable of lifting a bulldozer for instance one would have to wonder just how the Dutch managed to actually take control of the area with mere guns and cannons.
The way you describe this magickal relationship Ben it seems really hard to understand it within the context of a strictly Islamic society (albeit one that has kept and incorporated remnants of it animistic past). But how does making deals with enities within a keris for material favors sit with Allah and one's faith in Islam? As you say, it sounds like black magick to me. I don't think this was the original intent of the spiritual nature of the keris.