Ron, Steve: Thanks for your input. I have heard that a ladder pattern should contain forty steps representing the forty steps to Allah. It seems when I count I get either 38, 39, or even 41. It's difficult on this blade because not all the steps are that easy to see. Also I don't know if the "true" ladder is strictly confined to wootz and I wish I could remember where it was stated that it also occurs on purpose in a layered blade....Dave
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