Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - For Sellers in On-line Auctions

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2013, 09:29 AM

I recently heard of a scam that anybody who sells on ebay, or other on-line auctions, and accepts payment through Paypal should be aware of.

It goes pretty much like this:-

The seller gives the buyer a choice of shipping options that range from ordinary uninsured mail through insured mail, registered mail and courier delivery.

The buyer selects ordinary uninsured mail and pays by Paypal.

The seller posts the item and receives a post office receipt for the transaction.

The buyer claims that he has not received the item he bought and lodges a claim with ebay against the seller.

The seller produces the post office receipt as proof of posting, and ebay dismisses the buyer's claim.

The buyer has linked his Paypal account to an AMEX card, so when he gets nowhere with ebay he lodges another claim with AMEX stating that he has not received the goods he bought through Paypal, using the AMEX link.

AMEX apparently has a policy that requires a seller to prove that the buyer has received the goods for which he paid. Where a seller cannot prove this, AMEX will use all means at their disposal to recoup the buyer's payment from the seller.

When Paypal accepts a client's credit or debit card to link to the Paypal account, Paypal also accepts the policies of the card company that relate to payment and non-receipt of goods.

When AMEX accepts their client's claim that he has not received the goods he paid for, AMEX lodges a hold on the seller's Paypal account and the seller has a stipulated time in which to prove that the buyer has received the goods. Obviously the seller cannot prove this if he does not have documentary evidence of the buyer's receipt of the goods. Note this distinction:- the seller does not need to prove he has sent the goods by a mutually agreed method, rather he has to prove that the buyer has received the goods.

Paypal is not able, or perhaps not willing, to tell a seller if a buyer has linked his Paypal account to an AMEX card.

The buyer has effectively ripped off the seller because the seller was too naïve to ensure that the buyer acknowledged receipt of the goods supplied to him.

The moral of this story is that it is not real clever to try to be a nice guy and save the buyer a little bit of shipping cost by sending an unsigned for item.

Another way this scam can work is to simply wait the 45 days --- or whatever ebay gives to lodge a claim --- don't bother to lodge a claim against the seller through ebay, and after the 45 days expires, go straight to AMEX.

A lot of businesses in Australia will not accept AMEX card payments, and one of the reasons they will not accept AMEX is because of AMEX policies.

Australia Post appears to be aware of the problem of fraudulent claims of non-receipt of items bought on the internet, as every parcel posted in Australia is now trackable. However, that protection is lost when an item is sent overseas.

The outline I've given above is not a hypothetical, it happened to my son, and the scumbag that ripped my son off has pulled the same scam on other people.

10th August 2013, 09:29 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	For Sellers in On-line Auctions I recently heard of a scam that anybody who sells on ebay, or other on-line auctions, and accepts payment through Paypal should be aware of. It goes pretty much like this:- The seller gives the buyer a choice of shipping options that range from ordinary uninsured mail through insured mail, registered mail and courier delivery. The buyer selects ordinary uninsured mail and pays by Paypal. The seller posts the item and receives a post office receipt for the transaction. The buyer claims that he has not received the item he bought and lodges a claim with ebay against the seller. The seller produces the post office receipt as proof of posting, and ebay dismisses the buyer's claim. The buyer has linked his Paypal account to an AMEX card, so when he gets nowhere with ebay he lodges another claim with AMEX stating that he has not received the goods he bought through Paypal, using the AMEX link. AMEX apparently has a policy that requires a seller to prove that the buyer has received the goods for which he paid. Where a seller cannot prove this, AMEX will use all means at their disposal to recoup the buyer's payment from the seller. When Paypal accepts a client's credit or debit card to link to the Paypal account, Paypal also accepts the policies of the card company that relate to payment and non-receipt of goods. When AMEX accepts their client's claim that he has not received the goods he paid for, AMEX lodges a hold on the seller's Paypal account and the seller has a stipulated time in which to prove that the buyer has received the goods. Obviously the seller cannot prove this if he does not have documentary evidence of the buyer's receipt of the goods. Note this distinction:- the seller does not need to prove he has sent the goods by a mutually agreed method, rather he has to prove that the buyer has received the goods. Paypal is not able, or perhaps not willing, to tell a seller if a buyer has linked his Paypal account to an AMEX card. The buyer has effectively ripped off the seller because the seller was too naïve to ensure that the buyer acknowledged receipt of the goods supplied to him. The moral of this story is that it is not real clever to try to be a nice guy and save the buyer a little bit of shipping cost by sending an unsigned for item. Another way this scam can work is to simply wait the 45 days --- or whatever ebay gives to lodge a claim --- don't bother to lodge a claim against the seller through ebay, and after the 45 days expires, go straight to AMEX. A lot of businesses in Australia will not accept AMEX card payments, and one of the reasons they will not accept AMEX is because of AMEX policies. Australia Post appears to be aware of the problem of fraudulent claims of non-receipt of items bought on the internet, as every parcel posted in Australia is now trackable. However, that protection is lost when an item is sent overseas. The outline I've given above is not a hypothetical, it happened to my son, and the scumbag that ripped my son off has pulled the same scam on other people.