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Peter Hudson · 25th September 2023, 07:56 PM

Some detail on the Marquis of Newcastle... thus a better understanding of what happened to the idea of Border Rievers and their potential as English Cavalry...

From The Web...William Cavendish
William Cavendish, Marquis of Newcastle, 1593-1676. Cultured aristocrat who became commander of Royalist forces in the north of England during 1642-4. He lost heart and went into exile after his defeat at Marston Moor.

At Marsden Moor in 1644 the Duke of Newcastle .. William Cavendish fielded about 2000 to 3000 soldiers... mainly dismounted infantry who were essentaially wiped out by a Scotish surge ... It is interesting to note that Sir Walter Scott Two Centuries later spoke of the Royalist contingent of The Marquis of Newcastle (The Whitecoats) were somehow absorbed into the English Cavalry and that at some point Queen Elizabeth 1 may have been impressed by their cavalry skills and they were the finest horsemen in Europe Etc Etc...

The Duke of Newcstle as preferring to die rather than surrender whereas that may not be quite how or why it happened because the attack on the Whitecoats was done by a group who were not only made up of Scottish soldiers but a large contingent of men from Sunderland.

On the map Sunderland and Newcastle are quite close however they didnt get on well...In fact they hated each other and indeed the Sunderland contingent were Covenanters... So not only were the Whitecoats outnumbered and on foot... but they faced an enemy which despised them greatly.

So it was that a long time after the battle In the 19th C. Sir Walter Scott wrote that detail ... in his self appointed role as latter day Tudor spin doctor ...See above detail in bold letters... Simply not true.

What seems to further confuse matters is that The leader of the Whitecoats then ran away to Europe and though he did return later he had no part in reorganising the Whitecoats ... He had in fact been an excellent trainer and exponent of Cavalry and Equestrian expertise but was not further involved in Cavalry doctrine or training. In fact another serious blow to English Cavalry selection was the fact that although there were Border Rievers who had been involved in European wars as members of English contingents ..that once these had reurned home they were demobbed immediately and thus took no further part in the story. The build up and aftermath of Culloden and the persecution of Border Rievers ...It was illegal to have a Galloway horse and Borderers could be executed even on suspicion of being a Riever...without trial...further diminished the chances of them being somehow included in the English Cavalry Orbat...It never happened.

Peter Hudson.

25th September 2023, 07:56 PM	#65
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 289	Why didnt The Whitecoats get absorbed into The English Cavalry. Some detail on the Marquis of Newcastle... thus a better understanding of what happened to the idea of Border Rievers and their potential as English Cavalry... From The Web...William Cavendish William Cavendish, Marquis of Newcastle, 1593-1676. Cultured aristocrat who became commander of Royalist forces in the north of England during 1642-4. He lost heart and went into exile after his defeat at Marston Moor. At Marsden Moor in 1644 the Duke of Newcastle .. William Cavendish fielded about 2000 to 3000 soldiers... mainly dismounted infantry who were essentaially wiped out by a Scotish surge ... It is interesting to note that Sir Walter Scott Two Centuries later spoke of the Royalist contingent of The Marquis of Newcastle (The Whitecoats) were somehow absorbed into the English Cavalry and that at some point Queen Elizabeth 1 may have been impressed by their cavalry skills and they were the finest horsemen in Europe Etc Etc... The Duke of Newcstle as preferring to die rather than surrender whereas that may not be quite how or why it happened because the attack on the Whitecoats was done by a group who were not only made up of Scottish soldiers but a large contingent of men from Sunderland. On the map Sunderland and Newcastle are quite close however they didnt get on well...In fact they hated each other and indeed the Sunderland contingent were Covenanters... So not only were the Whitecoats outnumbered and on foot... but they faced an enemy which despised them greatly. So it was that a long time after the battle In the 19th C. Sir Walter Scott wrote that detail ... in his self appointed role as latter day Tudor spin doctor ...See above detail in bold letters... Simply not true. What seems to further confuse matters is that The leader of the Whitecoats then ran away to Europe and though he did return later he had no part in reorganising the Whitecoats ... He had in fact been an excellent trainer and exponent of Cavalry and Equestrian expertise but was not further involved in Cavalry doctrine or training. In fact another serious blow to English Cavalry selection was the fact that although there were Border Rievers who had been involved in European wars as members of English contingents ..that once these had reurned home they were demobbed immediately and thus took no further part in the story. The build up and aftermath of Culloden and the persecution of Border Rievers ...It was illegal to have a Galloway horse and Borderers could be executed even on suspicion of being a Riever...without trial...further diminished the chances of them being somehow included in the English Cavalry Orbat...It never happened. Peter Hudson.