Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Possible origins of the yataghan hilt form

Jim McDougall · 18th July 2019, 06:51 PM

In reading a current thread discussing possible regional classifications of one of these 'swords', I wanted to look into the possible connections and ancestry of the yataghan hilt form. I have read that technically the yataghan weapon type most commonly recognized is actually 'regarded' as a 'knife'. We are well familiar with the seemingly cavalier use of the yataghan term with 'Khyber knives' which are clearly a short sword of sorts.

It seems that it is commonly held that the so called 'eared' daggers of Luristan from as early as 1500 BC may have been an ancient inspiration for the Ottoman yataghan hilt. While this seems a compelling theory, there does not seem to be any linear connection to these Ottoman hilts which seem to have evolved around 15th to 16th century, but more common in 17th-19th.

The 'paired disc' pommels appear to have been one of a number of dagger hilt forms which are typically attributed to Luristan (a province of western Iran situated in Zagros mountains) in about 1st millennium BC. Some scholars have claimed that the Luristan attribution lends more to dealer descriptions from many looted artifacts from 1920s and 30s and that these weapons were probably Iranian proper and perhaps diplomatic gifts rather than indigenous weapons in Luristan.

While some of the Scythian (700-200BC) 'akinakes' had paired voluted scrolls as pommel features, these do not seem particularly relevant to the large ear or disc style of more recent yataghan hilts.

In the 12-13th century, a type of thrusting dagger known as a 'rondel (for dual discs at pommel and guard) was used by knights, with the discs securing the grip of the hand in a thrusting stab. It would seem that the later 'eared' dagger with slightly canted discs on either side of the pommel was intended to secure the thumb over the pommel in again, a thrusting stab.

These 'eared' daggers seem to have appeared in Spain about late 14th c. and diffused into Italy with Moorish workers who went there. The French called them daga a 'orielles and the Italians 'daga alla levantina' ...attributing 'Oriental' style.

It seems there was some apocryphal reference I read years ago which suggested the Ottoman hilt with this eared or flared shape was from the use of a sheeps femur in early instance. While it is compelling to suggest that shape has similarity, it seems doubtful such symbolism viable.

I am more inclined to think that the same influences in the trade networks with these 'eared' daggers produced in Venice might have inspired the Ottoman form hilt. Again, while these recurved blade (in use far earlier than these hilts of course) weapons become virtually iconic in the Ottoman Empire, they seem to have evolved into many variant styled hilts which deviate but in degree still carry the flared or eared theme.
The blade itself became known as 'yataghan' and that has expanded far beyond the hilt form as we know.

Upper left images : Persian dagger c. 1000BC assoc. with the 'Luristan' eared form. This is termed 'bearded' .
3: the Scythian 'akinakes' (forms varied) with paired scrolls.
4: The 'rondel' dagger
5: the European eared dagger
6: same

As always, I welcome corrections and additions as one of the key functions is to learn and discover, and comparing and adding evidence and support is essential. These are findings I have read through in the past several days researching, and trying to recall discussions of years ago, so obviously I may be 'off center' in places (to put it mildly).

While most discussions on yataghans have focused on regional classifications, terminology and such elements of the somewhat widely diffused types, I wanted to look more into the evolution of the form.

18th July 2019, 06:51 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Possible origins of the yataghan hilt form In reading a current thread discussing possible regional classifications of one of these 'swords', I wanted to look into the possible connections and ancestry of the yataghan hilt form. I have read that technically the yataghan weapon type most commonly recognized is actually 'regarded' as a 'knife'. We are well familiar with the seemingly cavalier use of the yataghan term with 'Khyber knives' which are clearly a short sword of sorts. It seems that it is commonly held that the so called 'eared' daggers of Luristan from as early as 1500 BC may have been an ancient inspiration for the Ottoman yataghan hilt. While this seems a compelling theory, there does not seem to be any linear connection to these Ottoman hilts which seem to have evolved around 15th to 16th century, but more common in 17th-19th. The 'paired disc' pommels appear to have been one of a number of dagger hilt forms which are typically attributed to Luristan (a province of western Iran situated in Zagros mountains) in about 1st millennium BC. Some scholars have claimed that the Luristan attribution lends more to dealer descriptions from many looted artifacts from 1920s and 30s and that these weapons were probably Iranian proper and perhaps diplomatic gifts rather than indigenous weapons in Luristan. While some of the Scythian (700-200BC) 'akinakes' had paired voluted scrolls as pommel features, these do not seem particularly relevant to the large ear or disc style of more recent yataghan hilts. In the 12-13th century, a type of thrusting dagger known as a 'rondel (for dual discs at pommel and guard) was used by knights, with the discs securing the grip of the hand in a thrusting stab. It would seem that the later 'eared' dagger with slightly canted discs on either side of the pommel was intended to secure the thumb over the pommel in again, a thrusting stab. These 'eared' daggers seem to have appeared in Spain about late 14th c. and diffused into Italy with Moorish workers who went there. The French called them daga a 'orielles and the Italians 'daga alla levantina' ...attributing 'Oriental' style. It seems there was some apocryphal reference I read years ago which suggested the Ottoman hilt with this eared or flared shape was from the use of a sheeps femur in early instance. While it is compelling to suggest that shape has similarity, it seems doubtful such symbolism viable. I am more inclined to think that the same influences in the trade networks with these 'eared' daggers produced in Venice might have inspired the Ottoman form hilt. Again, while these recurved blade (in use far earlier than these hilts of course) weapons become virtually iconic in the Ottoman Empire, they seem to have evolved into many variant styled hilts which deviate but in degree still carry the flared or eared theme. The blade itself became known as 'yataghan' and that has expanded far beyond the hilt form as we know. Upper left images : Persian dagger c. 1000BC assoc. with the 'Luristan' eared form. This is termed 'bearded' . 3: the Scythian 'akinakes' (forms varied) with paired scrolls. 4: The 'rondel' dagger 5: the European eared dagger 6: same As always, I welcome corrections and additions as one of the key functions is to learn and discover, and comparing and adding evidence and support is essential. These are findings I have read through in the past several days researching, and trying to recall discussions of years ago, so obviously I may be 'off center' in places (to put it mildly). While most discussions on yataghans have focused on regional classifications, terminology and such elements of the somewhat widely diffused types, I wanted to look more into the evolution of the form. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th July 2019 at 07:10 PM.