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Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Salaams Ibrahiim. Thanks for the link to the modern dress on the Omani Battle Sword. I have taken the liberty to repost one of your pics to show how they look....
QUESTION....Do you have an irrefutible link to information that this is how these looked in the past?......or is this your impression of how they would have looked? Any photos I have seen of these swords has shown them with bare metal hilts.
The other comment which has appeared often in these threads is the possible reuse of rhino sword hilts for jambiyas. I would have thought that sword hilts would not be big enough to refashion into handles for jambiya.
Anyway...on to the subject of my original question which was to try and find out what, if any hilt covering was on the Yemeni/Saudi swords shown by SWEDEGREEN.
I read with interest your new "take" on these swords, even to suggest that they just might be a "genuine" type, rather than (as you put it) some knocked up backyard item.
There are "quite a few" of these around (as there are Omani Saifs) and it would be reasonable to assume that more would be in their country of origin than elsewhere. The four shown above, it is stated, came out of Yemen in the 1960s, and I have one on the way to me which also came from there about the same time. The actual year in this case was 1963, and I have well provenanced details of who bought it out.
Now to the scabbards. IF these were made as "tourist" items, then why would the maker bother to make a nice scabbard and then "distress" it so that it looked old. Elsewhere in this discussion on bedouin swords and the like, it has been stated that tourism as we know it today, was in its infancy in Arabia in the 1960s and the modern "skills" of aging to mislead, would not in my opinion have been thought of, or at least not widely practiced.
So......do we have a hitherto "unknown", or at least "undiscussed" line of swords? It will be interesting to see where this discussion leads.
Further to my comment above, I have posted some pics of the sword which is on the way to me. These are sellers pics but they show a couple of interesting features. This sword has silver decoration and the drag of the scabbard is well worn skin of some sort....purported to be lion, but I think more likely goat or suchlike. I really think it most unlikely that any maker would bother to use skin and then "distress" it just to fool an unwitting buyer.
Comments Gentlemen please  |
Salaams Khanjar 1. When we were looking at the Sayf Yamaani.. The Old Omani Battle Sword ... in preparation for cladding the hilt in leather we looked at the Muscat National Museum and Bayt Zubair Museum for examples and took our lead from theirs. As I recall the Al Ain Museum also has an example, however, that one may not be covered. I researched another big private collection of 25 such weapons and discussed the issue with the owner and we all agreed with the Muscat Museums restoration. Naturally hilts of that vintage had lost their leather hilt covers. In addition I only saw one or two with actual scabbards though one of mine with scabbard is in the TRM Museum in Quwait. The hilts in Muscat Museums have also some with long strips of leather counterwoven in a sort of zig zag style onto the hilts and some are complete one piece covers as you show. (We followed the same style of "scabbard" in the restored swords also.)
On the subject of re used Rhino sword hilts for Jambia I have not seen any in original form thus the concept is likely based on a story that so far as I can deduce holds water and is feasible though I have never seen an original. As in all detective work it is really only proven 100% when a real MCoy turns up but the indicators are there for a reasonable assumption to prevail for now.... otherwise we would be at a standstill all over the spectrum no? Absolute certainty is a rare commodity in these matters and in the case of new information it is important to consider all things in that new light.
In view of that I think it right that the Red Sea long hilt be placed under the forum microscope since it could be a very interesting one to unravel. The blade is long and stiff and not the dancing blade of Oman by any means. Is this a fighting blade? Did it have a round tip or a point? Where was it made Yemen Saudia or both or Yemen in the old days and then the area was absorbed into Saudia? (I use the word Saudia to indicate an area rather than historically time wise) The hilt is intriguing being like a stretched version of the Omani Battler in many respects and it would be interesting to know if the two are actually related.
We have seen how the region in southern Saudia has been influenced by the Muscat Khanjar/Royal Khanjar so perhaps the same thing happened with this sword in a similar time scale i.e. mid 19th C. Or is this purely co-incidence?
You mention the leather scabbard cover ... Indeed this could be an indicator of provenance since often they covered weapons with wolf skin..which is what I suspect is on the photo...to ward off evil spirits and strengthen the sword/owner..thus it is a Talismanic effect.
On the question of hilt cover? This is a long meaty heavy blade and for practical reasons if it was a sword I see no reason why it wasn't covered but I have never seen one covered nor do I know for sure what it was used for. I am not certain where the ensemble originates either as they appear in Yemen and Saudia museums and souks. I have Ethiopian blades rehilted on this style but suggest that this is a red herring..but caution that the hilt does in fact follow the monumental style of the Horn of Africa hilts so that area cannot be ruled out yet.
Further intrigue is posed by the comparison of the hilt to the long Omani dancing hilt and the slavers curved sword style... both commomly refered to as the
Long Omani Hilt and what relationship if any there is between them. Could it be for example that the Red Sea metal hilt and sword was the forerunner to the Dancing Sayf (and the slavers style hilt) or vica-versa or totally unrelated?
In conclusion the debate is, so far as I can see, entirely open, thus, any ideas from anyone are welcome.
Looking ahead I refer readers to Michael Blalocks
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ilitary+museum and an example is at #1 but it is at #14 that another question arrises... Are these Red Sea variants supposedly from Yemen / Saudia related to the sword in the Wallace collection ~ see # 14. Staying for a final moment to view the picture in the museum on the same page at reference there is what appears to be a German blade on one of the long Red Sea variant hilts.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.