Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - PAKARANG KASOENDAN (Weapons of the Soenda)

A. G. Maisey · 2nd February 2020, 08:41 PM

Actually David, I rather enjoy Amuk's archaic and sometimes puzzling spellings. They refresh my memories and take me back to when I first began to learn Bahasa Indonesia. Yeah, I know, I'm not everybody else, but surely we can tolerate his convoluted spellings for the sake of his interesting photos?

When I began learning Bahasa Indonesia the old Dutch spelling was still being used, and my first dictionaries and text books were all the old spellings --- except for the Dutch "oe" instead of "u", that was changed in , I think, 1947, the other changes did not become official until 1972.

It is interesting to compare Indonesian romanisation and Malaysian romanisation. Sir Richard Winstead was responsible for the romanisation of Malay, and this first appeared in his Malay - English dictionary in 1908.

The old Dutch spelling system was in place from early in the 20th century, pre-1910, through to 1947, when it was replaced by the new National spelling system, I'm not sure, but I think this new system was called the "Republik" system. The old Dutch system had been invented by a gentleman with a name I cannot spell, it was something like van Ophuisen. Then in 1972 the present system that we use was introduced.

Interestingly, Malaysia did not exist until late in 1963, prior to that it had been Malaya, which of course was Melayu, because the Winstead spelling system was well and truly in place.

Actually, the term "Malay Archipelago" was an invention of Lord Alfred Wallace, he also called the same islands the "Indian Archipelago". Its a bit difficult to understand how the term "Malajoe archipelago" could ever have existed. Maybe "Kepuluan Malayoe" or "Kepuluan Malaju" or even "Kepuluan Melajoe", but then we have the problem of either Dutch or Indonesian nationalists ceding naming rights of Dutch or Indonesian territory to those difficult Malays, then using an English language term, expressed with Dutch spelling. It never happened.

For the Dutch, the islands that we now think of as "Indonesia" were known as "Nederland Indie", for indigenous people under Dutch overlordship these islands were "Hindia Belanda" or "Hindi Londo", after Merdeka, the generally used term in the new nation of Indonesia was "Nusantara" a term that was in use in Old Javanese.

That's what I mean about Amuk's sometimes puzzling spellings, they get confused and mixed, but truly I do enjoy the exercise of working out what he means, I think we should be tolerant and accept what he is prepared to give.

His pictures are great.

2nd February 2020, 08:41 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Actually David, I rather enjoy Amuk's archaic and sometimes puzzling spellings. They refresh my memories and take me back to when I first began to learn Bahasa Indonesia. Yeah, I know, I'm not everybody else, but surely we can tolerate his convoluted spellings for the sake of his interesting photos? When I began learning Bahasa Indonesia the old Dutch spelling was still being used, and my first dictionaries and text books were all the old spellings --- except for the Dutch "oe" instead of "u", that was changed in , I think, 1947, the other changes did not become official until 1972. It is interesting to compare Indonesian romanisation and Malaysian romanisation. Sir Richard Winstead was responsible for the romanisation of Malay, and this first appeared in his Malay - English dictionary in 1908. The old Dutch spelling system was in place from early in the 20th century, pre-1910, through to 1947, when it was replaced by the new National spelling system, I'm not sure, but I think this new system was called the "Republik" system. The old Dutch system had been invented by a gentleman with a name I cannot spell, it was something like van Ophuisen. Then in 1972 the present system that we use was introduced. Interestingly, Malaysia did not exist until late in 1963, prior to that it had been Malaya, which of course was Melayu, because the Winstead spelling system was well and truly in place. Actually, the term "Malay Archipelago" was an invention of Lord Alfred Wallace, he also called the same islands the "Indian Archipelago". Its a bit difficult to understand how the term "Malajoe archipelago" could ever have existed. Maybe "Kepuluan Malayoe" or "Kepuluan Malaju" or even "Kepuluan Melajoe", but then we have the problem of either Dutch or Indonesian nationalists ceding naming rights of Dutch or Indonesian territory to those difficult Malays, then using an English language term, expressed with Dutch spelling. It never happened. For the Dutch, the islands that we now think of as "Indonesia" were known as "Nederland Indie", for indigenous people under Dutch overlordship these islands were "Hindia Belanda" or "Hindi Londo", after Merdeka, the generally used term in the new nation of Indonesia was "Nusantara" a term that was in use in Old Javanese. That's what I mean about Amuk's sometimes puzzling spellings, they get confused and mixed, but truly I do enjoy the exercise of working out what he means, I think we should be tolerant and accept what he is prepared to give. His pictures are great. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 2nd February 2020 at 11:04 PM.