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Old 29th May 2013, 08:28 PM   #8
Iain
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Location: Olomouc
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Hi Jim,

I'm going to respond in some detail if you don't mind, I think this is an important piece and worth a bit of analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
In looking at these and reviewing notes I wanted to add some thoughts.
Over time we have discussed the application of European 'type' markings in these regions of Sudan on European trade blades or those entering the trade sphere . While it seems agreed that many interpretations of long established European markings and stamps are copied by native enterprenuers, it is interesting to note the apparantly and relatively consistant use of the running wolf and cross and orb combinations (as seen in the example linked by Iain).

These centrally fullered blades do seem to have existed as exports from Solingen from as early as about 1800, and the application of certain markings in the fuller configuration in a kind of 'brand' presentation seems likely.
It seems quite possible that these markings of the wolf and cross/orb much favored by the Sudanese markets might have been applied by artisans in Solingen context preparing these blades for that export. By the same token, experienced craftsmen in established entrepots receiving blades may well have applied these before distribution to various markets.

I notice that the styling of the running wolf is actually more 'artistically' fashioned than the rather choppy chiseled lines of most of the early wolf marks on European examples. The comparison of the two examples seen here suggests that they might have come from the same 'shop' if not even the same artist working freehand rather than stamping. It would be hard I would think to stamp across a fuller ridge.
Also consider that the 'wolf' and 'cross and orb' were virtually out of use in Europe overall by mid 17th century, but Solingen was still producing traditional blades and weapons for certain markets despite being in degree 'out of vogue'.
I would take a rather different view here. Solingen smiths were producing blades of this basic shape for the schiavona market, often with wolves and crosses and orbs since the 1600s as well as for a variety of other basket hilt swords across the continent. This was an export market as well in that sense and these weapons of course carried around the Med. The 19th century examples found in kaskara and takouba are invariably different in significant ways and I'll detail that a bit more below. Schiavona blades of this style continue up until the late 18th century (dated example)

Wolves with more curved lines quite well known and not all are made with small, chiseled lines joining to create the form. 17th century examples often exhibit longer line forms from my understanding (link). Running wolves are invariably made by engraving or chiseling, not stamping, at lest I can't recall a stamped one. The one on my example is the same. Engraved.

A blade in takouba form, with identical marks is IDed in Briggs as early 16th century, another with very similar marks 17th century. (see attachments) Mine has the identical dimensions as Briggs' piece in terms of fuller dimensions and the described profile.

I'd also highlight by the 19th century the export patterns from Solingen that seem more purpose made for the African market are notably different in form. They are flatter in profile (mass produced from bar stock is perhaps one factor) with entirely different edge geometry (chisel form), the fullers are rougher and if marks are present they are stamped. A fast, efficient method of marking (link to a great example of this).

Of course there is a possibility the marks on mine were done outside of a European context and the blade might certainly not fit into Briggs perhaps early dating. However, I would be surprised if this was a 19th century Solingen item even if the marks were done outside of Solingen, because it does not exhibit the characteristics we see in the 19th century blades from Solingen in kaskara and takouba.

While I am usually hesitant to assert something as earlier than the 19th century in a takouba or kaskara context, in this case I am rather confident. I have not had the time this evening to go through my archive of 16th-17th century single fuller blade images with similar characteristics. But a bit of Googling for schiavona will turn up quite a lot of auction results. But here's a particularly interesting one.

Quote:
While certainly still a conundrum, I would simply venture these considerations as possibilities.

The third example with the heavy ricasso block would certainly be in my thoughts, an earlier European blade, and the 'twig' marks probably are authentic. Again, these are in my opinion more compliance or production markings having more to do in inventory or accountability sense than particular maker or talismanic imbuement. I think many of these kinds of blades were among surplus items probably either among other trade blades or simply shipments of other commodities to supply trade routes.
This sword doesn't actually have a ricasso block. It has a "sandwich" mount of two pieces of steel pinning the blade. The mount is marked in the same way as the blade making the marks suspect in terms of period and application to my mind. The steel is also rather soft, not like most European blades I've had pass through my hands. But I agree, it's a mystery and rather odd. I haven't run into twig marks I considered suspect before.

Quote:
I agree with Colin, the blade on #2 does look like it may be fashioned from a tool or utility item as many knives are made of old files etc. The hole at that position on the blade is as I understand often copper filled, with this an old tradition applied toward old superstitious beliefs. Many early Islamic swords had gold filled holes in thier blades with various significance, as did Asian and even many European blades. Old traditions stand timelessly in these desert contexts.
Yep, I think we are getting towards a consensus this is probably made from a tool. The saw seems the most likely due to the sheer width of the piece.

Really appreciate the time you took to respond here Jim, I enjoy the discussion immensely even if I don't agree all the time!

Cheers,

Iain
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