Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
David, the issue of greneng, or the absence of such, is an interesting one. The example shown here by Lief has some greneng, still visible but seriously worn down. Detlef's example similarly shows almost no definable greneng. So perhaps these ancient kris had greneng to some extent that simply got worn down with time. And the Java keris in Moro dress referenced by Detlef appears never to have had greneng.
The point you raise about the drilled holes is a good one. The holes look fairly well defined, and show little effects of corrosion. In fact, when I X-rayed the area those holes looked very clean and circular--"punched out." For this reason, I think they are probably a much later addition.
Lastly, the uptilted end of the gangya is seen on the very old Bugis keris example that I have referenced, suggesting that this style of gangya could have been copied from the Bugis at an early time in the development of the Moro kris.
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We will have to agree to disagree here Ian. I believe the oldest Moro blades would display "greneng" as all these other examples presented here do show. Detlef's is the exception, but it is not a Moro blade. I can see nothing that leads me to belief the holes in your kris were added at a later date. The holes and the contoured bumps along the edge around them look original to the blade to my eyes. Again, i have seen these on later Moro kris, though i don't know exactly where along the timeline this style began. To me it seems like something that was added to simulate greneng a bit further down the timeline when the concept of greneng was further from its source in Java and less understood by Moro kris smiths. It seems to me that on the earliest of archaic Moro keris we still see greneng as it was originally intended in Java that still maintains the form of ron dha if not the full symbolic intent. That symbolic intent even changed in Java as the keris became a Islamic blade rather than a Hindu one. Over time the style of "greneng" on Moro kris became more varied and divorced from the original symbolic intent of the form. I still think that while indeed an old kris, yours is not part of the oldest group of archaic kris that would have maintained more of the original Indonesian form that it was developed from.