Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

VVV · 12th December 2006, 02:15 PM

This Kris was part of a lot of Indonesian/Malaysian Keris I found so it was posted on the Keris forum.
I thought it was Sulu, maybe redressed in Borneo.
But Ian noticed that it maybe could be Malaysian and didn't look like a typical Moro Kris.

So I post it here instead with hope of further comments to help me understand from where it originates?

Michael

Quotes from earlier discussion between Ian and me at the Keris forum.

Ian:
"That Kalis Sulu is beautiful. The ivory kakatua is considerably smaller than most. Do you have any idea where this one originated? I'm wondering if it came from Brunei or Malaysia because it is somewhat atypical for a traditional Moro kris."

Michael:
"I suspect that it maybe could come from NW Borneo based on the motifs on the silver band. But that's just a guess and I still think it's Sulu.
Please convince me if that's not the case?"

Ian:
"The reason that I think it is odd for Sulu (that is, Moro) is the hilt: a smaller than average kakatua and the continuous silver wrap to the hilt which has an octagonal "tubular" apeparance. The usual form of Moro silver hilt dress would be circular or oval bands of silver that overlap. Also, there is a small "lip" to the silver handle sheath just above the gangya -- not commonlty seen on Moro weapons.

That said, there was a lot of interaction between the Sulu and Brunei Sultanates, so some diffusion of styles each way probably occurred. Indeed "Sulu" has sometimes been used to include Brunei, so we may be splitting hairs."

I misunderstood what Ian meant with the octagonal hilt so Ian clarified:

"What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before."

And then I responded after not having found any resembling Moro Kris:

"I have been doing some research on this Kris but no success so far.
Maybe it is from Malaysia as you suggest?
I found this illustration (blew up the relevant part of it) of Sultan Abdullah and chiefs of Perak from 1878."

More pictures at

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

12th December 2006, 02:15 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Moro or Malaysian Kris? This Kris was part of a lot of Indonesian/Malaysian Keris I found so it was posted on the Keris forum. I thought it was Sulu, maybe redressed in Borneo. But Ian noticed that it maybe could be Malaysian and didn't look like a typical Moro Kris. So I post it here instead with hope of further comments to help me understand from where it originates? Michael Quotes from earlier discussion between Ian and me at the Keris forum. Ian: "That Kalis Sulu is beautiful. The ivory kakatua is considerably smaller than most. Do you have any idea where this one originated? I'm wondering if it came from Brunei or Malaysia because it is somewhat atypical for a traditional Moro kris." Michael: "I suspect that it maybe could come from NW Borneo based on the motifs on the silver band. But that's just a guess and I still think it's Sulu. Please convince me if that's not the case?" Ian: "The reason that I think it is odd for Sulu (that is, Moro) is the hilt: a smaller than average kakatua and the continuous silver wrap to the hilt which has an octagonal "tubular" apeparance. The usual form of Moro silver hilt dress would be circular or oval bands of silver that overlap. Also, there is a small "lip" to the silver handle sheath just above the gangya -- not commonlty seen on Moro weapons. That said, there was a lot of interaction between the Sulu and Brunei Sultanates, so some diffusion of styles each way probably occurred. Indeed "Sulu" has sometimes been used to include Brunei, so we may be splitting hairs." I misunderstood what Ian meant with the octagonal hilt so Ian clarified: "What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before." And then I responded after not having found any resembling Moro Kris: "I have been doing some research on this Kris but no success so far. Maybe it is from Malaysia as you suggest? I found this illustration (blew up the relevant part of it) of Sultan Abdullah and chiefs of Perak from 1878." More pictures at http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Attached Images