Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Unreliable gunpowder and variation in powder flask sizes

Philip · 7th January 2018, 09:54 PM

Hi, Rick
Very useful info!

1. As regards the relative strengths of the powder in the cartridges used in the comparison test, I would still make an allowance for some deterioration in performance as a result of over a century's storage, even in a "sealed" cartridge case. Black powder has always consisted of only 3 ingredients, and the "optimum" formulation has been hit upon in both Eastern and Western cultures centuries ago. The standard formula used in Western Europe, Britain, and the US has remained constant for over 150 years, and variation in performance can most likely be attributed to quality of ingredients, and storage conditions over time. Even in a "corned" configuration, black powder has inherent instabilty. It doesn't settle or separate into its constituents like "meal" powder, but the ingredients, especially the charcoal, are a magnet for atmospheric moisture to a degree that nitrocellulose (smokeless) powders are not. Remember the old saying "Keep your powder dry!"? Brass cartridge cases (as in the case of .45/70 ammo you mentioned) protect the contents a lot more effectively than powder flasks, or the wooden barrels formerly used for bulk storage. Yet I've pulled enough heads from cartridges that have exhibited greenish gunk and other shmutz on the outside, and have found it on the inside surfaces as well. As I recall, in older American cartridges like the .45/70, the case lip was crimped against the sides of the lead slug, and the slightest microscopic gap in between is enough to let in enough ambient atmospheric moisture to degrade the powder to a certain degree over more than a century. Not enough to render it entirely impotent -- a 15% decrease is not enough to make the thing totally "safe" and as you know, excavated ordnance from the Civil War and Franco-Prussian War have gone off with a healthy bang when detonated. I think that certain European cartridges, like the 11 mm Gras, Mauser, and Mannlicher rounds which have a wax-impregnated paper "jacket" which surrounds the slug as the brass is crimped over it, might provide a better anti-moisture barrier.

2. Not surprising that the powder recovered from the chamber of that Balkan gun had uneven grain size. It's likely that a lot of the powder made locally was handmade in mom-and-pop village operations, which didn't have the machinery that commercial or military powder mills were equipped with at the time. However, the stuff no doubt worked well enough for the purpose. It seems that these cultures had their own methods for grading the quality of local powder (there is mention of a grading scheme in Delhomme's report on Moroccan gun manufacture that I cited in a prior post), so they must have had a way to optimize the use of the product available to them.

7th January 2018, 09:54 PM	#9
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	strength of old powder / consistency in grain size Hi, Rick Very useful info! 1. As regards the relative strengths of the powder in the cartridges used in the comparison test, I would still make an allowance for some deterioration in performance as a result of over a century's storage, even in a "sealed" cartridge case. Black powder has always consisted of only 3 ingredients, and the "optimum" formulation has been hit upon in both Eastern and Western cultures centuries ago. The standard formula used in Western Europe, Britain, and the US has remained constant for over 150 years, and variation in performance can most likely be attributed to quality of ingredients, and storage conditions over time. Even in a "corned" configuration, black powder has inherent instabilty. It doesn't settle or separate into its constituents like "meal" powder, but the ingredients, especially the charcoal, are a magnet for atmospheric moisture to a degree that nitrocellulose (smokeless) powders are not. Remember the old saying "Keep your powder dry!"? Brass cartridge cases (as in the case of .45/70 ammo you mentioned) protect the contents a lot more effectively than powder flasks, or the wooden barrels formerly used for bulk storage. Yet I've pulled enough heads from cartridges that have exhibited greenish gunk and other shmutz on the outside, and have found it on the inside surfaces as well. As I recall, in older American cartridges like the .45/70, the case lip was crimped against the sides of the lead slug, and the slightest microscopic gap in between is enough to let in enough ambient atmospheric moisture to degrade the powder to a certain degree over more than a century. Not enough to render it entirely impotent -- a 15% decrease is not enough to make the thing totally "safe" and as you know, excavated ordnance from the Civil War and Franco-Prussian War have gone off with a healthy bang when detonated. I think that certain European cartridges, like the 11 mm Gras, Mauser, and Mannlicher rounds which have a wax-impregnated paper "jacket" which surrounds the slug as the brass is crimped over it, might provide a better anti-moisture barrier. 2. Not surprising that the powder recovered from the chamber of that Balkan gun had uneven grain size. It's likely that a lot of the powder made locally was handmade in mom-and-pop village operations, which didn't have the machinery that commercial or military powder mills were equipped with at the time. However, the stuff no doubt worked well enough for the purpose. It seems that these cultures had their own methods for grading the quality of local powder (there is mention of a grading scheme in Delhomme's report on Moroccan gun manufacture that I cited in a prior post), so they must have had a way to optimize the use of the product available to them.