Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th June 2011, 08:09 AM

I would like to add two fine references to our work so far and as direct take offs from the web other Forum users may be interested to view these...

1.PISANELLO’S HAT.
THE COSTUME AND WEAPONS DEPICTED
IN PISANELLO’S MEDAL FOR JOHN VIII PALAEOLOGUS.
A DISCUSSION OF THE SABER AND RELATED WEAPONS.

and another

2.SWORDS AND SABERS DURING THE EARLY ISLAMIC PERIOD.

What is quite refreshing is that though we (certainly not I) did not have access earlier to these references that in retrospect they support our theory.

The question of Sword of the Prophet is clearly a complex one. D. Alexander variously tends to sideline the entire subject very cleverly by suggesting that dates may be false on some or more or less avoids the issue leaving in my mind "a view" that many of these weapons were either spoils of war or gifts to the family of the Prophet and to their vast armoury. (The Yemen it is known, gave many swords on this basis). A lot of them were later modified and decorated in gold etc. In my view and largely after his death the Prophets legacy inspired extensive socio / political spin doctoring and the Sword of The Prophet in whatever form may have been a vehicle for much of that. Indeed the bifurcated sword also adorned many battle banners centuries after and the banners themselves were split designs mirroring the two pointed or two spined weapon. On the crusades one european commentator got it wrong (understandably) when he related to the battle ensign shape as a pair of trousers on a pole! The bifurcated weapon thereby appears as part of an index or structure of Islamic Heraldic symbols and whereas all Heraldic symbolism is usually confined to shields the sword and sword hilt in particular regarding the Omani duo of weapons discussed certainly queu up for that sort of recognition.

Like D. Alexander I think we can boil down a deduction that the Islamic and much favoured double edged broadsword was a key component in what we have been discussing.

The fact that a sword was given to Ali by the Prophet illustrates an important factor when we consider the honorific status(to Ibadi Islam) we have discussed on the Omani Short and Old Omani Long Kattara in respect of their specially shaped Hilts.

One perplexing reference appears in the second reference to a master sword maker in Basra called "Zayd" in the correct time frame! ( I wish that this could be the same Zayd (Jabr Ibn Zayd) that returned to lead Oman against the Abbasids but as yet I have zero proof of this strange co incidence in names.) (Kufa is in Iraq) (Basura is of course Basra) viz;

~ Al-Kindi mentions a smith named Zayd, working in Kufa, and comments that one of the important types made in Kufa was the baid (white). He also noted that Basùra was an important center of production, swords produced there seem to have been renowned for the strength of their steel.~

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

27th June 2011, 08:09 AM	#71
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I would like to add two fine references to our work so far and as direct take offs from the web other Forum users may be interested to view these... 1.PISANELLO’S HAT. THE COSTUME AND WEAPONS DEPICTED IN PISANELLO’S MEDAL FOR JOHN VIII PALAEOLOGUS. A DISCUSSION OF THE SABER AND RELATED WEAPONS. and another 2.SWORDS AND SABERS DURING THE EARLY ISLAMIC PERIOD. What is quite refreshing is that though we (certainly not I) did not have access earlier to these references that in retrospect they support our theory. The question of Sword of the Prophet is clearly a complex one. D. Alexander variously tends to sideline the entire subject very cleverly by suggesting that dates may be false on some or more or less avoids the issue leaving in my mind "a view" that many of these weapons were either spoils of war or gifts to the family of the Prophet and to their vast armoury. (The Yemen it is known, gave many swords on this basis). A lot of them were later modified and decorated in gold etc. In my view and largely after his death the Prophets legacy inspired extensive socio / political spin doctoring and the Sword of The Prophet in whatever form may have been a vehicle for much of that. Indeed the bifurcated sword also adorned many battle banners centuries after and the banners themselves were split designs mirroring the two pointed or two spined weapon. On the crusades one european commentator got it wrong (understandably) when he related to the battle ensign shape as a pair of trousers on a pole! The bifurcated weapon thereby appears as part of an index or structure of Islamic Heraldic symbols and whereas all Heraldic symbolism is usually confined to shields the sword and sword hilt in particular regarding the Omani duo of weapons discussed certainly queu up for that sort of recognition. Like D. Alexander I think we can boil down a deduction that the Islamic and much favoured double edged broadsword was a key component in what we have been discussing. The fact that a sword was given to Ali by the Prophet illustrates an important factor when we consider the honorific status(to Ibadi Islam) we have discussed on the Omani Short and Old Omani Long Kattara in respect of their specially shaped Hilts. One perplexing reference appears in the second reference to a master sword maker in Basra called "Zayd" in the correct time frame! ( I wish that this could be the same Zayd (Jabr Ibn Zayd) that returned to lead Oman against the Abbasids but as yet I have zero proof of this strange co incidence in names.) (Kufa is in Iraq) (Basura is of course Basra) viz; ~ Al-Kindi mentions a smith named Zayd, working in Kufa, and comments that one of the important types made in Kufa was the baid (white). He also noted that Basùra was an important center of production, swords produced there seem to have been renowned for the strength of their steel.~ Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.