Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

fernando · 17th October 2018, 01:49 PM

Aren't we facing a riddle here ?

The Portuguese LC Trooper sabre follows the British P1821 for LC Officers, originaly German designed. Mounted for troopers with a relatively light blade (32" long) with a wired grip over shagreen cover. Other examples reach a 34" blade.
So it appears that this successful design was sold all over, Americas and other, Portugal obviously also in the list of those interested.
This called Reeves of Birmingham for attention, and they also went for an export share of the Solingen sabre.
At a certain stage, this design was also made in the Portuguese Army Arsenal.
Notably the Reeves version had a particularity; the steel scabbard, which was made elsewhere with 1,5 m/m wall, only had 0,7 m/m thickness, causing somehow a drag weakness. This could (could) be done to save production costs. But it could also be that not all Reeves scabbards were made this way.

Probably Bruno's (posted) example has not been imported from Reeves; if it had, it should in principle have the initials AE in both sabre quillon disc and scabbard suspension loop. But is is also true that it bears a number in the said quillon thatmay pertain in a Portuguese (Regiment) ... or better, a serial number. We don't know whether this number also appears in the scabbard ring loop, as wel lthe AE in the other side.

As for Bruno's sabre having been imported from Spain, certain oddities have to be circumvented ... in my perspective, of course. Why Ballesteros, or any Toledo maker/dealer, for the case, would imitate Reeves mark;to ensure better quality or trade prestige other than that of Toledo ? And, if this sword had been supplied under a Portuguese contract, would it be plausible and/or even allowed that the Reeves name appeared in the ricasso ?

It would be interesting to know from Bruno whether the scabbard suspension loop has any marks in either side and if the quillon point has the AE initials in the opposite side of that #number. Also the length of the blade would be a vital detail.

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17th October 2018, 01:49 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Aren't we facing a riddle here ? The Portuguese LC Trooper sabre follows the British P1821 for LC Officers, originaly German designed. Mounted for troopers with a relatively light blade (32" long) with a wired grip over shagreen cover. Other examples reach a 34" blade. So it appears that this successful design was sold all over, Americas and other, Portugal obviously also in the list of those interested. This called Reeves of Birmingham for attention, and they also went for an export share of the Solingen sabre. At a certain stage, this design was also made in the Portuguese Army Arsenal. Notably the Reeves version had a particularity; the steel scabbard, which was made elsewhere with 1,5 m/m wall, only had 0,7 m/m thickness, causing somehow a drag weakness. This could (could) be done to save production costs. But it could also be that not all Reeves scabbards were made this way. Probably Bruno's (posted) example has not been imported from Reeves; if it had, it should in principle have the initials AE in both sabre quillon disc and scabbard suspension loop. But is is also true that it bears a number in the said quillon thatmay pertain in a Portuguese (Regiment) ... or better, a serial number. We don't know whether this number also appears in the scabbard ring loop, as wel lthe AE in the other side. As for Bruno's sabre having been imported from Spain, certain oddities have to be circumvented ... in my perspective, of course. Why Ballesteros, or any Toledo maker/dealer, for the case, would imitate Reeves mark;to ensure better quality or trade prestige other than that of Toledo ? And, if this sword had been supplied under a Portuguese contract, would it be plausible and/or even allowed that the Reeves name appeared in the ricasso ? It would be interesting to know from Bruno whether the scabbard suspension loop has any marks in either side and if the quillon point has the AE initials in the opposite side of that #number. Also the length of the blade would be a vital detail. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 17th October 2018 at 03:16 PM.