Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:14 PM

Old 29th May 2012, 04:54 PM #238

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Excellent observations as always Ibrahiim!
Thank you for the reference to the 'rocker' type punches on the Omani blade which indeed seem to correspond to the snake/serpent type mark being discussed. This does seem to have a rather mechanical stylized similarity to the 13th century latteen inlaid mark presented by Cornelistromp on another thread, and was used by medieval swordsmiths on thier blades presumably in German shops. It is always of course compelling evidence that these early blades were seen in Arab/North African/East African trade contexts and the use of the images carried forth in local work.

While the perillo (=little dog) image attributed to Julian del Rey in Spain does seem to have had similar impact on some native markings in North African context (Briggs, 1965), it does not seem to have been duplicated in the rest of Europe to the best of my knowledge. The 'running wolf of Passau' of course was somewhat widely duplicated in vast variation in Europe as well as the Caucusus, North Africa and probably Arabia in some degree which remains unclear.

It seems the ampersand (&) symbol did also appear in some markings and print but as far as I know this device was not widely used until more recent times on blades. It would be interesting to look further into that aspect.

All the best,
Jim
.

19th October 2017, 03:14 PM	#209
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Old 29th May 2012, 04:54 PM #238 Posted by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Excellent observations as always Ibrahiim! Thank you for the reference to the 'rocker' type punches on the Omani blade which indeed seem to correspond to the snake/serpent type mark being discussed. This does seem to have a rather mechanical stylized similarity to the 13th century latteen inlaid mark presented by Cornelistromp on another thread, and was used by medieval swordsmiths on thier blades presumably in German shops. It is always of course compelling evidence that these early blades were seen in Arab/North African/East African trade contexts and the use of the images carried forth in local work. While the perillo (=little dog) image attributed to Julian del Rey in Spain does seem to have had similar impact on some native markings in North African context (Briggs, 1965), it does not seem to have been duplicated in the rest of Europe to the best of my knowledge. The 'running wolf of Passau' of course was somewhat widely duplicated in vast variation in Europe as well as the Caucusus, North Africa and probably Arabia in some degree which remains unclear. It seems the ampersand (&) symbol did also appear in some markings and print but as far as I know this device was not widely used until more recent times on blades. It would be interesting to look further into that aspect. All the best, Jim . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 03:41 PM.