Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - East Javanese Keris(es)

A. G. Maisey · 11th March 2013, 04:23 AM

I doubt that anybody who has looked closely at keris related matters will argue with much of what you've written, Amuk Murugul. In fact, I think most of what you've said has been published in various past threads on this forum.

However, none of it has a lot to do with what this thread was supposed to be about, which was the possible identification of keris from East Jawa.

Admitted, I've given tentative classifications of a some of the keris shown, and these classifications are based on the Surakarta mainstream. That mainstream has become wider in recent years, with the inclusion of quite a few classifications that do not seem to have been part of the original Surakarta system, but admitted, the mainstream system still has at its foundations the system that was developed in Surakarta.

Back in the 1970's Garrett Solyom made this same point, that the system which is mostly used in the study of keris is a Solonese, rather than an all encompassing Javanese system.

Whether or not this is a valid approach is a question that could generate unending discussion, however, it is beyond question that the Karaton Surakarta is the senior royal house of Jawa, and as such its protocols and beliefs do tend to take precedence, as they have done for a long time.

The way in which the keris has developed as a societal icon in Jawa has resulted in it becoming a part of, and possibly central to the beliefs which form a part of Kejawen beliefs. This does not mean that we need to disregard other systems of belief, but if I were to start talking about the keris as it is now, in terms that ceased to apply after the demise of Javanese-Hindu society, nobody would have the slightest idea of what I was raving about. Thus, if I wish to be understood it is probably adviseable that I try to couch what I write in terms that most people will understand.

That keris knowledge, as it exists within Javanese society, is a system of belief is undoubtedly true.

However, in this thread, we are not really addressing keris knowledge as such knowledge is understood in Jawa, rather, we are using a recogniseable geographic area and attempting to identify the keris types which may originate from that area.

My little forays into Tangguh Land are really a side issue.

11th March 2013, 04:23 AM	#52
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	I doubt that anybody who has looked closely at keris related matters will argue with much of what you've written, Amuk Murugul. In fact, I think most of what you've said has been published in various past threads on this forum. However, none of it has a lot to do with what this thread was supposed to be about, which was the possible identification of keris from East Jawa. Admitted, I've given tentative classifications of a some of the keris shown, and these classifications are based on the Surakarta mainstream. That mainstream has become wider in recent years, with the inclusion of quite a few classifications that do not seem to have been part of the original Surakarta system, but admitted, the mainstream system still has at its foundations the system that was developed in Surakarta. Back in the 1970's Garrett Solyom made this same point, that the system which is mostly used in the study of keris is a Solonese, rather than an all encompassing Javanese system. Whether or not this is a valid approach is a question that could generate unending discussion, however, it is beyond question that the Karaton Surakarta is the senior royal house of Jawa, and as such its protocols and beliefs do tend to take precedence, as they have done for a long time. The way in which the keris has developed as a societal icon in Jawa has resulted in it becoming a part of, and possibly central to the beliefs which form a part of Kejawen beliefs. This does not mean that we need to disregard other systems of belief, but if I were to start talking about the keris as it is now, in terms that ceased to apply after the demise of Javanese-Hindu society, nobody would have the slightest idea of what I was raving about. Thus, if I wish to be understood it is probably adviseable that I try to couch what I write in terms that most people will understand. That keris knowledge, as it exists within Javanese society, is a system of belief is undoubtedly true. However, in this thread, we are not really addressing keris knowledge as such knowledge is understood in Jawa, rather, we are using a recogniseable geographic area and attempting to identify the keris types which may originate from that area. My little forays into Tangguh Land are really a side issue.