Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Newest Treasure Acquisition, The Most Magic Knife, Esoteric Secrets, Gematria,+,+,+

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2023, 08:55 PM

This is most interesting Joe, and I wanted to try to enter some possibilities which hopefully will be recognized for simply identification purposes.

The reference to 'Nogent' mentioned is to the city in France known for production of cutlery and various bladed implements. There is a Musee de la Coutellerie there which might have information. In Levines 4th edition (1997,) I found no useful example in the comprehensive examples of knives.

It seems to be this is a considerably old knife, the blade seems to be reprofiled from a sword, and IMO it is more in the shape of a hunting knife. The 'fish tail' is unusual, and have not found any similar.

It does seem there is a potential for being the 'athame' type knife of occult practices, as these are notably with black hilt as seen here. As far as I know there are no prescribed forms for these, but the unusual pommel and the equally unusual symbols on the grip seem to augment to notion.

While the gold color device seems more a baroque aesthetic it could very well be an interpretation of an esoteric sigil. The circular cartouche seems to represent some type of bird in a fylfot configuration, representing circular or repetitive motion dynamically, which does relate to certain alchemical type symbolism. This seems to be an innocuous example, while of course there are other types of this device more sinister.

I do not see any reason to read any of those connotations into this and see this as an intriguing example of a repurposed old sword blade, quite long ago fashioned into this mysterious knife probably in France.

I would bring into view the author Gerald Gardner who became well known in modern occult in the 1950s, and whose interest in vintage edged weapons was focused on the keris. His knowledge and understanding of these kinds of properties were instrumental it would seem in those of these kinds of knives.
The numeric 999 is indeed supposed to be an angelic number, which no doubt certain proponents might see as the obverse number.

I hope this example can remain observed objectively as it is an aspect of edged weaponry seldom ever touched on. It is well known that many swords of antiquity and with noted use in historic campaigns often ended up in Masonic context in lodges, and other fraternal groups. I would consider perhaps this blade might have had similar circumstance.

27th January 2023, 08:55 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	This is most interesting Joe, and I wanted to try to enter some possibilities which hopefully will be recognized for simply identification purposes. The reference to 'Nogent' mentioned is to the city in France known for production of cutlery and various bladed implements. There is a Musee de la Coutellerie there which might have information. In Levines 4th edition (1997,) I found no useful example in the comprehensive examples of knives. It seems to be this is a considerably old knife, the blade seems to be reprofiled from a sword, and IMO it is more in the shape of a hunting knife. The 'fish tail' is unusual, and have not found any similar. It does seem there is a potential for being the 'athame' type knife of occult practices, as these are notably with black hilt as seen here. As far as I know there are no prescribed forms for these, but the unusual pommel and the equally unusual symbols on the grip seem to augment to notion. While the gold color device seems more a baroque aesthetic it could very well be an interpretation of an esoteric sigil. The circular cartouche seems to represent some type of bird in a fylfot configuration, representing circular or repetitive motion dynamically, which does relate to certain alchemical type symbolism. This seems to be an innocuous example, while of course there are other types of this device more sinister. I do not see any reason to read any of those connotations into this and see this as an intriguing example of a repurposed old sword blade, quite long ago fashioned into this mysterious knife probably in France. I would bring into view the author Gerald Gardner who became well known in modern occult in the 1950s, and whose interest in vintage edged weapons was focused on the keris. His knowledge and understanding of these kinds of properties were instrumental it would seem in those of these kinds of knives. The numeric 999 is indeed supposed to be an angelic number, which no doubt certain proponents might see as the obverse number. I hope this example can remain observed objectively as it is an aspect of edged weaponry seldom ever touched on. It is well known that many swords of antiquity and with noted use in historic campaigns often ended up in Masonic context in lodges, and other fraternal groups. I would consider perhaps this blade might have had similar circumstance.