Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Gonzalo G · 24th December 2008, 02:38 AM

Dear Fearn and Jim, thank you very much for your references, which confirm mine. In my book Central Asia, by Gavin Hambly, in the pages 59-60, he explicitly mentions that the juan juan, as chinese called them,were a central asia people which is probably the same who appeared latter in Europe under the name of "avars" in the 6th Century, and they introduced for the first time the use of the stirrup and the sabre in this area. I belive we can refer for certain as early as this century the presence of this weapon, not only in Europe, but maybe also in the western part of the orient, including the Middle East and Bizantium for this purpose. There is a reference to this inventions, very important from a military point of view, specially for the latter development of the cavalry and their tactics (the medieval knight wouldn´t existed as we know it without stirrups), also in A. D. H. Biwar, "The Stirrup and it´s Origins", in Oriental Art, I, 1953, pags 3-7.

It is known, at least until this moment, that huns did not used stirrups and sabres. Which was a limitation for their mounted bowman and in the close combat, a specialty widely exploited in the steppes of Central Asia, and maybe it was one of the reasons the huns could be expelled form there by a more military superior tribes or confederation of tribes. As you know, the different type of weapons have their correlate in the tactics in which they are used, and the more effective use of the composite asian bow requires adecuated saddles (stirrups included), to stand in safely while shooting with great precision.

Attila in particular is surrounded by a myth in which he must find a sword in which he has dreamed, as a sign to head the hun armies and move them to the west.

I believe, furthermore, that the use of sabres would be noticed and consignated by the roman historians of the hun wars in this side of the world. And, to this moment, I can´t find a reference to this point in their writtings. That is why I have asked you for references. Thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo

24th December 2008, 02:38 AM	#37
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Dear Fearn and Jim, thank you very much for your references, which confirm mine. In my book Central Asia, by Gavin Hambly, in the pages 59-60, he explicitly mentions that the juan juan, as chinese called them,were a central asia people which is probably the same who appeared latter in Europe under the name of "avars" in the 6th Century, and they introduced for the first time the use of the stirrup and the sabre in this area. I belive we can refer for certain as early as this century the presence of this weapon, not only in Europe, but maybe also in the western part of the orient, including the Middle East and Bizantium for this purpose. There is a reference to this inventions, very important from a military point of view, specially for the latter development of the cavalry and their tactics (the medieval knight wouldn´t existed as we know it without stirrups), also in A. D. H. Biwar, "The Stirrup and it´s Origins", in Oriental Art, I, 1953, pags 3-7. It is known, at least until this moment, that huns did not used stirrups and sabres. Which was a limitation for their mounted bowman and in the close combat, a specialty widely exploited in the steppes of Central Asia, and maybe it was one of the reasons the huns could be expelled form there by a more military superior tribes or confederation of tribes. As you know, the different type of weapons have their correlate in the tactics in which they are used, and the more effective use of the composite asian bow requires adecuated saddles (stirrups included), to stand in safely while shooting with great precision. Attila in particular is surrounded by a myth in which he must find a sword in which he has dreamed, as a sign to head the hun armies and move them to the west. I believe, furthermore, that the use of sabres would be noticed and consignated by the roman historians of the hun wars in this side of the world. And, to this moment, I can´t find a reference to this point in their writtings. That is why I have asked you for references. Thank you. Regards Gonzalo Last edited by Gonzalo G; 24th December 2008 at 09:56 AM.