Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

TVV · 9th May 2018, 07:12 AM

When it comes to the hilt, if you trace out the contours of the grip and the guard, the closest match in terms of pure shape is the group of nimchas that usually have a hilt with tortoise shell and metal. From what I have read, the Algerian attribution is based on 4 swords in the Real Armeria that were taken as trophies in 1732 during the siege of Oran. Similar swords may have been used along the entire Barbary Coast, but we know for sure that they were definitely in use in what is nowadays Algeria in the early 18th century. Hence why earlier in this thread I posted an opinion that the walrus hilt is most likely of Algerian origin.

The further back we go in time, the less we know with absolute certainty. The same applies to auction house appraisers, museum curators and authors. We all examine the available information, compare examples, and then form an opinion. The conclusions we reach are not always right, often because we simply do not know enough. But I believe we all like the mystery aspect or else we would be collecting regular military patterns and not ethnographic arms that are all more or less unique creations.

I honestly am still not entirely sure what to make of this sword. It is certainly very interesting - the hilt is of an old form, but from an unusual material (for the type, otherwise walrus ivory was quite popular in the Ottoman Empire), the blade attached to the hilt by what appears like a sandwich construction at the base, so almost certainly not original to the hilt, and then with an inscription that may or may not have anything to do with Tipu Sultan of Mysore. On top of that, it appears to have traded hands at auction quite a few times lately. I see why Kubur chose to post it here - it has a straight multi-fullered blade on a hilt that is most likely from the Maghreb, but I do not think the two swords have all that much in common.

Sooner or later, there will be a sword posted online with a blade similar to yours in terms of the shape and fullering, and when that happens, hopefully whoever notices it will remember this thread and will post it here.

9th May 2018, 07:12 AM	#47
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	When it comes to the hilt, if you trace out the contours of the grip and the guard, the closest match in terms of pure shape is the group of nimchas that usually have a hilt with tortoise shell and metal. From what I have read, the Algerian attribution is based on 4 swords in the Real Armeria that were taken as trophies in 1732 during the siege of Oran. Similar swords may have been used along the entire Barbary Coast, but we know for sure that they were definitely in use in what is nowadays Algeria in the early 18th century. Hence why earlier in this thread I posted an opinion that the walrus hilt is most likely of Algerian origin. The further back we go in time, the less we know with absolute certainty. The same applies to auction house appraisers, museum curators and authors. We all examine the available information, compare examples, and then form an opinion. The conclusions we reach are not always right, often because we simply do not know enough. But I believe we all like the mystery aspect or else we would be collecting regular military patterns and not ethnographic arms that are all more or less unique creations. I honestly am still not entirely sure what to make of this sword. It is certainly very interesting - the hilt is of an old form, but from an unusual material (for the type, otherwise walrus ivory was quite popular in the Ottoman Empire), the blade attached to the hilt by what appears like a sandwich construction at the base, so almost certainly not original to the hilt, and then with an inscription that may or may not have anything to do with Tipu Sultan of Mysore. On top of that, it appears to have traded hands at auction quite a few times lately. I see why Kubur chose to post it here - it has a straight multi-fullered blade on a hilt that is most likely from the Maghreb, but I do not think the two swords have all that much in common. Sooner or later, there will be a sword posted online with a blade similar to yours in terms of the shape and fullering, and when that happens, hopefully whoever notices it will remember this thread and will post it here.