Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:09 PM

Old 10th April 2012, 03:48 AM #228

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Dave, thank you so much for adding the excellent views of Wagner's references and the data on the Solingen makers, most pertinant in this thread.

Ibrahiim, thank you for the reference to the intriguing "Hollow Sword Blade Co." which has become a most interesting conundrum in the study of the German swordsmiths in England during the late 17th, into the 18th c.

This brings back great memories of research years ago into the lore of weapons, especially the tales of mercury filled blades. This idea was part of the fanciful notions of these times which dealt primarily with the 'steel apple', purportedly an iron weight which was fashioned to slide from heel to point of a blade on a rod along the blade. I recall research for an author who was trying to locate an example of such a sword for a novel set in 17th century Scotland. Apparantly the tales of this peculiar feature seem to have derived from the romantic tales of Sir Walter Scott who mentions this in one of his stories. The concept was carried further as I recall by the early biographer of James Bowie and his knife, mentioning the feature on a knife he had handled. No substantiation could be found for any of these weapons, but numerous mentions seem to have reflected influence between authors.

The same concept seems to have been perceived by writers in the Victorian period who must have drawn from these notions, and an 1859 reference refers to 'quicksilver in the back of a sword' but no evidence of actual swords with this supposed feature to increase dynamic force of thier cut.
They do mention the Walter Scott reference to the 'steel apple', which of course suggests the association in concept.

In actuality, the term 'hollow' refers to the German trade secret of the machinery to roll out 'hollows' in thier 'Kolichmarde' type smallsword blades, giving them the distinct three or four fuller cross section. It had nothing to do with fanciful notions of mercury in hollowed channels in or on the blade.
While the German sword producing firm of Hermann Mohll was in fact created to make swords, they were actually smuggling these 'hollow ground' blades into England and finishing them there, resulting in legal issues.

To complicate things more, the 'Hollow Sword Blade Co.' appears to have been created around the same time purportedly to make 'hollow blades' but actually was more of a financial syndicate involved in purchasing forfeited Itish estates. According to Aylward and other writers, there is no evidence of blades from this venture, let alone any of the fanciful mercury filled blades, as far as I have ever discovered.

Still, it is a great topic and we have had fascinating discussions on it and related topic over the years. Thank you so much for adding it here!!!

All the very best,
Jim
.

19th October 2017, 03:09 PM	#199
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Old 10th April 2012, 03:48 AM #228 Posted by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Dave, thank you so much for adding the excellent views of Wagner's references and the data on the Solingen makers, most pertinant in this thread. Ibrahiim, thank you for the reference to the intriguing "Hollow Sword Blade Co." which has become a most interesting conundrum in the study of the German swordsmiths in England during the late 17th, into the 18th c. This brings back great memories of research years ago into the lore of weapons, especially the tales of mercury filled blades. This idea was part of the fanciful notions of these times which dealt primarily with the 'steel apple', purportedly an iron weight which was fashioned to slide from heel to point of a blade on a rod along the blade. I recall research for an author who was trying to locate an example of such a sword for a novel set in 17th century Scotland. Apparantly the tales of this peculiar feature seem to have derived from the romantic tales of Sir Walter Scott who mentions this in one of his stories. The concept was carried further as I recall by the early biographer of James Bowie and his knife, mentioning the feature on a knife he had handled. No substantiation could be found for any of these weapons, but numerous mentions seem to have reflected influence between authors. The same concept seems to have been perceived by writers in the Victorian period who must have drawn from these notions, and an 1859 reference refers to 'quicksilver in the back of a sword' but no evidence of actual swords with this supposed feature to increase dynamic force of thier cut. They do mention the Walter Scott reference to the 'steel apple', which of course suggests the association in concept. In actuality, the term 'hollow' refers to the German trade secret of the machinery to roll out 'hollows' in thier 'Kolichmarde' type smallsword blades, giving them the distinct three or four fuller cross section. It had nothing to do with fanciful notions of mercury in hollowed channels in or on the blade. While the German sword producing firm of Hermann Mohll was in fact created to make swords, they were actually smuggling these 'hollow ground' blades into England and finishing them there, resulting in legal issues. To complicate things more, the 'Hollow Sword Blade Co.' appears to have been created around the same time purportedly to make 'hollow blades' but actually was more of a financial syndicate involved in purchasing forfeited Itish estates. According to Aylward and other writers, there is no evidence of blades from this venture, let alone any of the fanciful mercury filled blades, as far as I have ever discovered. Still, it is a great topic and we have had fascinating discussions on it and related topic over the years. Thank you so much for adding it here!!! All the very best, Jim . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 03:23 PM.