Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Jamdhar katari

Jim McDougall · 30th May 2019, 02:28 PM

Tangential byways sometimes lead to serendipitous discoveries, though I hasten to admit that Serendip is probably too southerly to be considered relevant to the subject(s) herein under discussion.[/QUOTE]

LOL! VERY cleverly put Bob!

I am glad we all agree that certain expansions and tangents in a discussion can often lead to key discoveries on a particular subject which may not have otherwise be found. I know that in research I have often found answers in unrelated places, almost in a bizarre circumstance at times...…..and indeed in the 'Serendip' realm.

Personally I feel I am learning a lot from our discussion here, and before returning to the jamadhar-kitari, I wanted to note that the 'rapier' excursion has revealed that some of my perceptions on these blades being used in khanda and pata were apparently patently incorrect.

Much of this derived from some 'chestnut' I read somewhere that claimed that the Marathas in swordsmanship despised the thrust, and preferred slashing cuts alone. That was clearly not entirely true as I have been finding references which not only pictured and noted rapier blades on these weapons, but clearly compelled the fact that they must have been used for thrusting. On that note I am opening a separate thread on this topic.

Returning to the jamadhar-kitari (KATARAH) , a line illustration of one of these is depicted in Pant ("Indian Arms & Armour", 1980, p.174, fig. 532) where Pant refers to the Egerton (1880, p.102) entries noting these as daggers of the Kafirs of Hindu Kush. Here Pant suggests these daggers were actually popular all over North India and Nepal from 16th through 18th centuries.
Here Pant further attributes this material to Stone (1934, p.314, fig. 398).

I would note here that this diffusion of the form is of course not surprising, as we have discussed the disparity between the animist/Hindu religion of the Kafir and related tribes of the Hindu Kush regions and the Muslim regime intent on subduing them. The diaspora of these tribes surely carried to form widely in many directions.

30th May 2019, 02:28 PM	#247
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,757	Tangential byways sometimes lead to serendipitous discoveries, though I hasten to admit that Serendip is probably too southerly to be considered relevant to the subject(s) herein under discussion.[/QUOTE] LOL! VERY cleverly put Bob! I am glad we all agree that certain expansions and tangents in a discussion can often lead to key discoveries on a particular subject which may not have otherwise be found. I know that in research I have often found answers in unrelated places, almost in a bizarre circumstance at times...…..and indeed in the 'Serendip' realm. Personally I feel I am learning a lot from our discussion here, and before returning to the jamadhar-kitari, I wanted to note that the 'rapier' excursion has revealed that some of my perceptions on these blades being used in khanda and pata were apparently patently incorrect. Much of this derived from some 'chestnut' I read somewhere that claimed that the Marathas in swordsmanship despised the thrust, and preferred slashing cuts alone. That was clearly not entirely true as I have been finding references which not only pictured and noted rapier blades on these weapons, but clearly compelled the fact that they must have been used for thrusting. On that note I am opening a separate thread on this topic. Returning to the jamadhar-kitari (KATARAH) , a line illustration of one of these is depicted in Pant ("Indian Arms & Armour", 1980, p.174, fig. 532) where Pant refers to the Egerton (1880, p.102) entries noting these as daggers of the Kafirs of Hindu Kush. Here Pant suggests these daggers were actually popular all over North India and Nepal from 16th through 18th centuries. Here Pant further attributes this material to Stone (1934, p.314, fig. 398). I would note here that this diffusion of the form is of course not surprising, as we have discussed the disparity between the animist/Hindu religion of the Kafir and related tribes of the Hindu Kush regions and the Muslim regime intent on subduing them. The diaspora of these tribes surely carried to form widely in many directions.