Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

fernando · 4th May 2007, 09:25 PM

Hi Marc
Are you referring to my quotation of page 170-171 of "Homens e Espadas e Tomates", which i am worried for you having not yet received your copy ?
It says there that, at the arsenals built in the African Coast ( and not only ) swords could be restored by Portuguese swordsmiths and other "handy" blacksmiths. Blades were imported "by the bundle", from either Spain (toledanas ?) or Europe, and mounted or remounted locally. If on one hand these colonial swords looked quite inferior, compared to those originally made in Portugal, on the other, could be confused with those made by the local African artisans, as both could have similar resource for the blades.
Naturally the African hilts were more crude than those of the Portuguese soldiers, but differences could sometimes be subtle for a non expert. Dahehnardt told me personnaly that the differences could reside in the tang fixing and pommel dimensions. Obviously sometimes things were not so extreme, and the difference was obvious. He writes ( not in this book ) that the Africans also mounted these swords with local blades.
Another reference is that the Portuguese only practised this exercise during the XV-XVI century. And almost the totality of these swords have practically disappeared. You will see an original of these colonial swords in page 64 of the same book, with a marked german blade of the XVI century. Do i see on the pommel and blade fullers an "inspiration" to the specimen pictured by Brian of the British Museum ?

Certainly the massive quantity that can bee found out there are copies of the thing. But those can be old and valuable, too. I have an auction catalogue with a Muslim specimen, probably from Guinea, with all parts of the set dating from the XVI-XVII century ... with the guards in the colhona style.
See also item 5 of Antonio's exhibition, with a german blade marked Abraham Stam.
http://www.arscives.com/cejunior/portarmour/005.htm
Eventually i can see the same blade mark in a British catalogue picture of a beautyfull nimcha, but dated XVIII century.
So Brian ... and Marc, to my absolutely unexperienced eye, the BM sword is probably African, judging by its hilt, rather than for the crudeness of the blade. Don't pay much attention to what i say, but i find this piece quite old. Not necessarily from the XVI century, but also not XIX or the like.
Sorry for the "dry up".
fernando

4th May 2007, 09:25 PM	#15
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Marc Are you referring to my quotation of page 170-171 of "Homens e Espadas e Tomates", which i am worried for you having not yet received your copy ? It says there that, at the arsenals built in the African Coast ( and not only ) swords could be restored by Portuguese swordsmiths and other "handy" blacksmiths. Blades were imported "by the bundle", from either Spain (toledanas ?) or Europe, and mounted or remounted locally. If on one hand these colonial swords looked quite inferior, compared to those originally made in Portugal, on the other, could be confused with those made by the local African artisans, as both could have similar resource for the blades. Naturally the African hilts were more crude than those of the Portuguese soldiers, but differences could sometimes be subtle for a non expert. Dahehnardt told me personnaly that the differences could reside in the tang fixing and pommel dimensions. Obviously sometimes things were not so extreme, and the difference was obvious. He writes ( not in this book ) that the Africans also mounted these swords with local blades. Another reference is that the Portuguese only practised this exercise during the XV-XVI century. And almost the totality of these swords have practically disappeared. You will see an original of these colonial swords in page 64 of the same book, with a marked german blade of the XVI century. Do i see on the pommel and blade fullers an "inspiration" to the specimen pictured by Brian of the British Museum ? Certainly the massive quantity that can bee found out there are copies of the thing. But those can be old and valuable, too. I have an auction catalogue with a Muslim specimen, probably from Guinea, with all parts of the set dating from the XVI-XVII century ... with the guards in the colhona style. See also item 5 of Antonio's exhibition, with a german blade marked Abraham Stam. http://www.arscives.com/cejunior/portarmour/005.htm Eventually i can see the same blade mark in a British catalogue picture of a beautyfull nimcha, but dated XVIII century. So Brian ... and Marc, to my absolutely unexperienced eye, the BM sword is probably African, judging by its hilt, rather than for the crudeness of the blade. Don't pay much attention to what i say, but i find this piece quite old. Not necessarily from the XVI century, but also not XIX or the like. Sorry for the "dry up". fernando Last edited by fernando; 4th May 2007 at 09:38 PM.