Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - An Extremely Rare North Italian Arquebusier's Auxiliary Armament Saber, ca. 1510-15

Matchlock · 20th October 2009, 05:41 PM

Hi Cornelis and Samuel,

Thanks for ensuring me that the thing is definitely a saber.

Ariel, I do consent that what I, for reasons of historical art terminnology, have come to call the late Gothic trefoliate pommel can certainly be seen as a formal predecessor of the 'cat's head' shapes on later schiavonas although we must not forget the vast variety of Late Gothic and Early Renaissance stylistic elements many of which were still 'alive' one or two centuries later, especially in Italy.

To me, the significant square pommels of the ca. 1450 to 1500 Venetian swords seem to be closer relatives to the later schiavona pommels.

Also, as to the discussion of the relatively refined hilt on my saber and its consequent dating I enclose more North Italian, mostly Venetian, sword hilts, all of late 15th to early 16th c. date (the one on b/w ill. 45 with a later ca. 1550 guard but retaining its trefoliate pommel and grip of ca. 1500), two of them featuring a horizontal side ring, all preserved at the Palazzo Ducale, Venice.
So when I sort of open the dating range of my saber to 'ca. 1520-5', do we have a deal then?

Best,
Michael

20th October 2009, 05:41 PM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Cornelis and Samuel, Thanks for ensuring me that the thing is definitely a saber. Ariel, I do consent that what I, for reasons of historical art terminnology, have come to call the late Gothic trefoliate pommel can certainly be seen as a formal predecessor of the 'cat's head' shapes on later schiavonas although we must not forget the vast variety of Late Gothic and Early Renaissance stylistic elements many of which were still 'alive' one or two centuries later, especially in Italy. To me, the significant square pommels of the ca. 1450 to 1500 Venetian swords seem to be closer relatives to the later schiavona pommels. Also, as to the discussion of the relatively refined hilt on my saber and its consequent dating I enclose more North Italian, mostly Venetian, sword hilts, all of late 15th to early 16th c. date (the one on b/w ill. 45 with a later ca. 1550 guard but retaining its trefoliate pommel and grip of ca. 1500), two of them featuring a horizontal side ring, all preserved at the Palazzo Ducale, Venice. So when I sort of open the dating range of my saber to 'ca. 1520-5', do we have a deal then? Best, Michael Attached Images