Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 15th November 2011, 10:14 PM

Hi Michael, and Im really glad you came in on this, I hoped you would.
An interesting assessment for Historismus period, and honestly I had never heard of it.....and now that I have read on it, I realize why

You have an amazing grasp of art nuances that are remarkably esoteric and completely fascinating. From what I can understand the term seems to have appeared around 1797 by Friedrich Schelegel suggesting of course returning to classical period (Iggers, 1995) and while largely philosophical in nature also refers to the art movement end of 19th century c.1870-1910 and as you note, reflecting 16th-17th c. styles.
Interestingly, the vagueries concerning this Historismus period seem to coincide with the very subjective nature of the topics and fields it concerns.
In one reference it is suggested that the 'movement' as it is termed may be considered to have begun as early as 1750 inspired by French neo baroque styles.

As I have noted, the French appearance to me is suggested by the crosshatched design in the grips, typically seen in the ebony grips of French officers sabres on Napoleonic period. The pommel is indeed neo classical, and seems to correspond with period in France where many neo classic styles and traditions were in place. The interesting cartouche with majescule letter above another with numbers in what appears 18th c. French script.

Perhaps this may be an 'interpretation' of the type stilettos used by gunners,
as by the time of this piece it seems unlikely such instrument/weapons would have been used. Actually, the bombardier stilletto phenomenon was largely to Italy, though as with fashion and these kinds of allusions may well have passed in degree to other European countries in a military parlance. It seems that for the most part, the priming iron (a sharp pointed stylus type item) was used by artillerymen to clear touch holes. The prime focus of the gunners stilletto was in its doubling as a weapon, and its disguise with arcane numbers in guage arrangement to meet stipulation that only gunners could have such weapons.

Then there is the matter of the curious crenellations in the blade. Still it is either gunners stilletto issued anachronistically or an honorific interpretation of one, either French in the period I suggest, or later as Michael suggests. It is difficult to say exactly as it is a weapon type issued out of time and may have been fashioned within this broader period of the 19th century.

15th November 2011, 10:14 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	Hi Michael, and Im really glad you came in on this, I hoped you would. An interesting assessment for Historismus period, and honestly I had never heard of it.....and now that I have read on it, I realize why You have an amazing grasp of art nuances that are remarkably esoteric and completely fascinating. From what I can understand the term seems to have appeared around 1797 by Friedrich Schelegel suggesting of course returning to classical period (Iggers, 1995) and while largely philosophical in nature also refers to the art movement end of 19th century c.1870-1910 and as you note, reflecting 16th-17th c. styles. Interestingly, the vagueries concerning this Historismus period seem to coincide with the very subjective nature of the topics and fields it concerns. In one reference it is suggested that the 'movement' as it is termed may be considered to have begun as early as 1750 inspired by French neo baroque styles. As I have noted, the French appearance to me is suggested by the crosshatched design in the grips, typically seen in the ebony grips of French officers sabres on Napoleonic period. The pommel is indeed neo classical, and seems to correspond with period in France where many neo classic styles and traditions were in place. The interesting cartouche with majescule letter above another with numbers in what appears 18th c. French script. Perhaps this may be an 'interpretation' of the type stilettos used by gunners, as by the time of this piece it seems unlikely such instrument/weapons would have been used. Actually, the bombardier stilletto phenomenon was largely to Italy, though as with fashion and these kinds of allusions may well have passed in degree to other European countries in a military parlance. It seems that for the most part, the priming iron (a sharp pointed stylus type item) was used by artillerymen to clear touch holes. The prime focus of the gunners stilletto was in its doubling as a weapon, and its disguise with arcane numbers in guage arrangement to meet stipulation that only gunners could have such weapons. Then there is the matter of the curious crenellations in the blade. Still it is either gunners stilletto issued anachronistically or an honorific interpretation of one, either French in the period I suggest, or later as Michael suggests. It is difficult to say exactly as it is a weapon type issued out of time and may have been fashioned within this broader period of the 19th century.