Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Flyssa

Jim McDougall · 4th July 2007, 07:52 PM

Hi Emanuel,
Thank you for posting this, and congratulations on finally obtaining an excellent example of these intriguing swords! Thank you also for always including interesting data, especially the comments on the work by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins. I have always wished I had access to this apparantly detailed work on the flyssa, the only in depth study I am aware of, but unfortunately I do not speak or read French.

Krockew, Tim and Lew thank you for also sharing your great examples as well !

When threads develop like this with such great input, it is especially rewarding to see the discussion including such comprehensive examples, and serious observations that better help us understand the weapons being studied.

As we have noted over the years, it does seem the 'flyssa' is a relative latecomer as a distinct form, and its development has been suggested to have come from the early Meditteranean sword forms such as machaira.This seems unlikely as there is no evidence of progressive development and the length of time with the forms unlinked is too long. It seems more plausible in my opinion that it came loosely from the deep bellied and virtually straight Ottoman yataghan of 16th c. ("The Age of Suleyman the Magnificent", 1990, p.64 #50), combined with the needle point form of blades on Circassian/Tatar sabres of c.16th-17th centuries. This hybridization would seem to have been an atavistic development that arose initially in the Grand Kabylie regions of Algeria, and generally held to have been armourers of the Ifflyssen tribe (hence the term 'flyssa').

The earliest known example (at least by narrative using the term) is said to have been presented to a Spanish envoy in 1827. The earliest known provenanced example I have found is one in the Foreign Legion museum in France, captured in combat in 1857. It is of the same form, motif and decoration seen in the well known examples generally seen.

That is primarily what is categorically known on the history of the flyssa from my own perspective, and it would be great to know of any earlier examples known, as well as any narrative data that might be included in material from the French military. It seems that more might be included on the actual use of these.

I agree that the smaller curved and almost dagger type examples are likely modern. I have seen the term 'wedding flyssa' used...is there any material authenticating the wearing of these weapons in wedding ceremonies?

We know that the geometric designs distinctly seen on the flyssa are primarily based on folk religious superstition, i.e. the triangular 'fibula' to protect from the evil eye. It is unclear what creature is represented in the stylized zoomorphic figure.......ideas??

On many flyssas there is a strange sort of hourglass figure usually toward to root of the blade....what does this represent?

Thanks very much everybody!

All best regards,
Jim

4th July 2007, 07:52 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Emanuel, Thank you for posting this, and congratulations on finally obtaining an excellent example of these intriguing swords! Thank you also for always including interesting data, especially the comments on the work by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins. I have always wished I had access to this apparantly detailed work on the flyssa, the only in depth study I am aware of, but unfortunately I do not speak or read French. Krockew, Tim and Lew thank you for also sharing your great examples as well ! When threads develop like this with such great input, it is especially rewarding to see the discussion including such comprehensive examples, and serious observations that better help us understand the weapons being studied. As we have noted over the years, it does seem the 'flyssa' is a relative latecomer as a distinct form, and its development has been suggested to have come from the early Meditteranean sword forms such as machaira.This seems unlikely as there is no evidence of progressive development and the length of time with the forms unlinked is too long. It seems more plausible in my opinion that it came loosely from the deep bellied and virtually straight Ottoman yataghan of 16th c. ("The Age of Suleyman the Magnificent", 1990, p.64 #50), combined with the needle point form of blades on Circassian/Tatar sabres of c.16th-17th centuries. This hybridization would seem to have been an atavistic development that arose initially in the Grand Kabylie regions of Algeria, and generally held to have been armourers of the Ifflyssen tribe (hence the term 'flyssa'). The earliest known example (at least by narrative using the term) is said to have been presented to a Spanish envoy in 1827. The earliest known provenanced example I have found is one in the Foreign Legion museum in France, captured in combat in 1857. It is of the same form, motif and decoration seen in the well known examples generally seen. That is primarily what is categorically known on the history of the flyssa from my own perspective, and it would be great to know of any earlier examples known, as well as any narrative data that might be included in material from the French military. It seems that more might be included on the actual use of these. I agree that the smaller curved and almost dagger type examples are likely modern. I have seen the term 'wedding flyssa' used...is there any material authenticating the wearing of these weapons in wedding ceremonies? We know that the geometric designs distinctly seen on the flyssa are primarily based on folk religious superstition, i.e. the triangular 'fibula' to protect from the evil eye. It is unclear what creature is represented in the stylized zoomorphic figure.......ideas?? On many flyssas there is a strange sort of hourglass figure usually toward to root of the blade....what does this represent? Thanks very much everybody! All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 6th July 2007 at 04:56 AM.