Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 4th March 2009, 09:11 PM

WOW!!!
That is a beauty, the famed M1796 heavy cavalry disc hilt, as carried by the 2nd Dragoons ("Royal Scots Greys") at thier immortal charge at Waterloo.
The marking 'I. Gill' was of course John Gill, one of the more prominant swordmakers of Birmingham. Osborn & Gunby as seen on the scabbard was another purveyor of c.1800-10 and typically supplied M1796 patterns for both light and heavy cavalry.
In incongruent scabbard in my estimation has always suggested battlefield pickups, as these swords and scabbards were carried off fields of battle in the aftermath, and seldom were this disconnected pieces found together.
The swords which remained with original scabbards were of course with those survivors.
There is always of course the fact that many of these swords were collected into the Royal Armouries as they became obsolete in the 1820's, but it is my understanding that many, if not most of those were destroyed in a fire in the 1850's if I recall. There was a brief project at refurbishing these into other practice or cutlass type weapons I think, but cannot recall that distinctly either. It would seem unlikely that mismatches would occur in the case of weapons turned in.

The crowned 4 is an inspectors mark after the weapon was 'viewed' on acceptance for issue. Usually regimental marks are found on the underside of the disc, and include regiment numerics, rack and issue numbers.

This could very well have been one of these famed 'disc hilts' that was carried by the 'Greys' that day at Waterloo. I have seen examples of disc hilts that were indeed there, and also by this maker I. Gill.

This is what I can recall for now, but I'll have to find the references for the inspectors mark in Robson, but its buried someplace here in the bookmobile!!

All the best,
Jim

P.S. Please be ultra careful cleaning this, super fine steel wool and light grade oil...see if you can find those markings on the underside of the disc. This may be a real treasure!! Whether so marked or not, these disc hilts have become about as rare as hens teeth..so have profound value regardless.

4th March 2009, 09:11 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,748	WOW!!! That is a beauty, the famed M1796 heavy cavalry disc hilt, as carried by the 2nd Dragoons ("Royal Scots Greys") at thier immortal charge at Waterloo. The marking 'I. Gill' was of course John Gill, one of the more prominant swordmakers of Birmingham. Osborn & Gunby as seen on the scabbard was another purveyor of c.1800-10 and typically supplied M1796 patterns for both light and heavy cavalry. In incongruent scabbard in my estimation has always suggested battlefield pickups, as these swords and scabbards were carried off fields of battle in the aftermath, and seldom were this disconnected pieces found together. The swords which remained with original scabbards were of course with those survivors. There is always of course the fact that many of these swords were collected into the Royal Armouries as they became obsolete in the 1820's, but it is my understanding that many, if not most of those were destroyed in a fire in the 1850's if I recall. There was a brief project at refurbishing these into other practice or cutlass type weapons I think, but cannot recall that distinctly either. It would seem unlikely that mismatches would occur in the case of weapons turned in. The crowned 4 is an inspectors mark after the weapon was 'viewed' on acceptance for issue. Usually regimental marks are found on the underside of the disc, and include regiment numerics, rack and issue numbers. This could very well have been one of these famed 'disc hilts' that was carried by the 'Greys' that day at Waterloo. I have seen examples of disc hilts that were indeed there, and also by this maker I. Gill. This is what I can recall for now, but I'll have to find the references for the inspectors mark in Robson, but its buried someplace here in the bookmobile!! All the best, Jim P.S. Please be ultra careful cleaning this, super fine steel wool and light grade oil...see if you can find those markings on the underside of the disc. This may be a real treasure!! Whether so marked or not, these disc hilts have become about as rare as hens teeth..so have profound value regardless.