Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 8th September 2008, 05:58 AM

Hi Manuel Luis, and welcome to the forum, and what an outstanding entry with this extremely interesting rapier!

I was completely drawn in by this unusual hilt, and spent some enjoyable time trying to see what I could come up with. Actually, the characteristics of this rapier hilt seem most closely aligned to the well known 'Spanish' cuphilt of the 17th century, in the cup form guard, wide quillons, and the adjoined knucklebow which does not meet the pommel. The hilt overall seems closest to #101 in the late A.V.B.Norman's "The Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" (London, 1980, p.179) which is a deep cupped guard (without rompepuntas) c. late 17th c.+

It is noted that Spanish cuphilts were worn in the Low Countries, and that a hilt of this sort was made for a visit from a Swedish dignitary in 1655. While not specifying if this style hilt was for either of these instances clearly, the author does note further that, "...the cups of these hilts have lobated edges with rays emerging from the center to meet at the junctions of the lobes along the edge of the cup. In some cases the 'petals' thus formed are as few as eight or as many as twenty".

It seems that similar type hilts are noted c.1675 in Madrid ("Compendio de los Fundamentos" of Francisco de Ettenhard, plate VII) and in Venice in "La Spada Maestra" of Bondi di Mazo (1696).

The blade seems to correspond with latter 17th century 'trade' blades that were actually from Solingen for the Spanish market and were traded and into the 18th century to Spains colonies in my understanding. The characteristic 'anchor' type stamp is known to have appeared on early Toledo blades (such as on those marked to Alonso Perez, one of which was found on the wreck of the 'Atocha, sunk in 1622 off Florida coast). The German makers often applied spurious Spanish names and marks, the X's were often used in these blades inscriptions, and the ENT may have been En Toledo?

These notes are what I found with resources at hand, and of course Manuel, I would like to know if these observations might concur with your opinions on this rapier. Thank you so much for posting this !!!

All very best regards,
Jim

P.S. I'm completely baffled by the crosshatched pommel, and quillon terminals en suite, which don't seem to correspond to anything in the hilts shown in 'Norman" (op.cit.) or other references I checked.

8th September 2008, 05:58 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	Hi Manuel Luis, and welcome to the forum, and what an outstanding entry with this extremely interesting rapier! I was completely drawn in by this unusual hilt, and spent some enjoyable time trying to see what I could come up with. Actually, the characteristics of this rapier hilt seem most closely aligned to the well known 'Spanish' cuphilt of the 17th century, in the cup form guard, wide quillons, and the adjoined knucklebow which does not meet the pommel. The hilt overall seems closest to #101 in the late A.V.B.Norman's "The Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" (London, 1980, p.179) which is a deep cupped guard (without rompepuntas) c. late 17th c.+ It is noted that Spanish cuphilts were worn in the Low Countries, and that a hilt of this sort was made for a visit from a Swedish dignitary in 1655. While not specifying if this style hilt was for either of these instances clearly, the author does note further that, "...the cups of these hilts have lobated edges with rays emerging from the center to meet at the junctions of the lobes along the edge of the cup. In some cases the 'petals' thus formed are as few as eight or as many as twenty". It seems that similar type hilts are noted c.1675 in Madrid ("Compendio de los Fundamentos" of Francisco de Ettenhard, plate VII) and in Venice in "La Spada Maestra" of Bondi di Mazo (1696). The blade seems to correspond with latter 17th century 'trade' blades that were actually from Solingen for the Spanish market and were traded and into the 18th century to Spains colonies in my understanding. The characteristic 'anchor' type stamp is known to have appeared on early Toledo blades (such as on those marked to Alonso Perez, one of which was found on the wreck of the 'Atocha, sunk in 1622 off Florida coast). The German makers often applied spurious Spanish names and marks, the X's were often used in these blades inscriptions, and the ENT may have been En Toledo? These notes are what I found with resources at hand, and of course Manuel, I would like to know if these observations might concur with your opinions on this rapier. Thank you so much for posting this !!! All very best regards, Jim P.S. I'm completely baffled by the crosshatched pommel, and quillon terminals en suite, which don't seem to correspond to anything in the hilts shown in 'Norman" (op.cit.) or other references I checked.