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A. G. Maisey · 22nd June 2009, 06:54 AM

I thank you for your comprehensive and immensely erudite response Pak Ganja, and I offer my most humble apologies if I may have appeared to be a little pedantic in respect of primacy of Islamic kingdoms.

I have read and heard a number of different theories in respect of the origins of Sunan Gunung Jati, and the one you provide is as interesting as any I have previously heard.

However, as interesting as your recounting is, there are just a couple of things I would like to raise.

You tell us that Sunan Gunung Jati was 18 years of age in 1466, thus, he was born in 1448.

Sunan Gunung Jati died in 1570.

This made him 122 years old at the time of his death.

Perhaps even more remarkable is the fact that Sunan Gunung Jati (AKA Syarif Hidayat Fatahillah, AKA Faletahan) would have been 78 years of age in 1526 when he was sent by Sultan Trenggana (AKA Tung Ka Lo) as the leader of an expedition against Sunda.

But that which truly astounds me is this:- in 1553 Sunan Gunung Jati married the daughter of Haji Tan Eng Hoat (AKA Maulana Ifdil Hanafi); at the time of his marriage he would have been 105 years of age. In 1570 Sunan Gunung Jati died, and his heir was the son of this marriage, concieved when Sunan Gunung Jati was already well past 100 years of age.Because this son was considered to be too young to rule, Tan Sam Cai, the Treasurer of Cirebon, acted in his stead.

Pak Ganja, I deeply respect the traditions, and traditional histories of Jawa, however, regretfully these histories are often confused and inaccurate, and when subjected to modern historical analytical investigation, they tend to be insupportable.

As items of faith, part of a belief system, they must be honoured, but as accurate representations of the past, they must be questioned.

Similarly in respect of the dates you ascribe to the commencement of the kingdoms of Demak and Cirebon.

Demak did not commence with the building of the Mesjid Agung, and the chronogram on the Lawang Bledheg indicates that the mesjid already existed in 1466, not that it was begun in 1466. However, let us accept that Demak was founded some time in the second half of the 15th century. The fact remains that the Islamic Kingdom of Cirebon was founded with the assistance of Demak, which means it was founded after Demak.

My personal belief is that the figure that we know as Sunan Gunung Jati was very probably at least two people, and that time has collapsed them into a single personage.

As for Nyi Mas Subang Larang, itulah istri aku sendiri Pak. Subangipun istriku larang bwanget!

22nd June 2009, 06:54 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I thank you for your comprehensive and immensely erudite response Pak Ganja, and I offer my most humble apologies if I may have appeared to be a little pedantic in respect of primacy of Islamic kingdoms. I have read and heard a number of different theories in respect of the origins of Sunan Gunung Jati, and the one you provide is as interesting as any I have previously heard. However, as interesting as your recounting is, there are just a couple of things I would like to raise. You tell us that Sunan Gunung Jati was 18 years of age in 1466, thus, he was born in 1448. Sunan Gunung Jati died in 1570. This made him 122 years old at the time of his death. Perhaps even more remarkable is the fact that Sunan Gunung Jati (AKA Syarif Hidayat Fatahillah, AKA Faletahan) would have been 78 years of age in 1526 when he was sent by Sultan Trenggana (AKA Tung Ka Lo) as the leader of an expedition against Sunda. But that which truly astounds me is this:- in 1553 Sunan Gunung Jati married the daughter of Haji Tan Eng Hoat (AKA Maulana Ifdil Hanafi); at the time of his marriage he would have been 105 years of age. In 1570 Sunan Gunung Jati died, and his heir was the son of this marriage, concieved when Sunan Gunung Jati was already well past 100 years of age.Because this son was considered to be too young to rule, Tan Sam Cai, the Treasurer of Cirebon, acted in his stead. Pak Ganja, I deeply respect the traditions, and traditional histories of Jawa, however, regretfully these histories are often confused and inaccurate, and when subjected to modern historical analytical investigation, they tend to be insupportable. As items of faith, part of a belief system, they must be honoured, but as accurate representations of the past, they must be questioned. Similarly in respect of the dates you ascribe to the commencement of the kingdoms of Demak and Cirebon. Demak did not commence with the building of the Mesjid Agung, and the chronogram on the Lawang Bledheg indicates that the mesjid already existed in 1466, not that it was begun in 1466. However, let us accept that Demak was founded some time in the second half of the 15th century. The fact remains that the Islamic Kingdom of Cirebon was founded with the assistance of Demak, which means it was founded after Demak. My personal belief is that the figure that we know as Sunan Gunung Jati was very probably at least two people, and that time has collapsed them into a single personage. As for Nyi Mas Subang Larang, itulah istri aku sendiri Pak. Subangipun istriku larang bwanget!