[David]

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

When I said about the WHY, What, WHEN, WHERE and HOW etc. I did mean it on a broad scope, not just regarding the keris on this thread or its dapur though I did mention that, yes. - I was implying it only as an example. I am sorry I was unable to make my point clear. My mistake. I understand completely what you mean - ruling out the language out would make it impossible to continue many of the fruitful discussions. Besides it is in the etymology that we many times find some proofs pro or against some insight to some of the Big Questions outlined above.

Jussi there was never any question in my mind that you were talking about the larger picture and not just the keris on this thread. I too would like to see this forum delve into the deeper questions of the keris and while i never really tire of the "show & tell" (afterall, i like to see nice and interesting keris) i know there is much more to learn than the names of all the parts, dhapurs and pamor patterns.

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

Some terminology is - of course - most welcome as it makes it easier to grasp certain things, such as the various parts, styles and components of the handle, sheath, blade and their decoration you mentioned. - These are well established and clearly define what is meant as there are - as you said - no other terms to be used.

Perhaps you could explain exactly which terms in this thread you are opposed to.

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

It appears I am with you all the way. - So, what did I mean then? I meant that it is - in my opinion - very frustrating when a posting includes more vague terminology than it does clear language when that vague terminology could have been replaced with more well established substitutes and especially so if it appears that the vague terminology is used only to enhance the posters own standing in this virtual community.

I'm sorry Jussi, but it is difficult for me to respond to this when you yourself are being vague about which words in this thread you are referring to exactly and what words you think they could be replaced with to make it more clear. Yes, there is quite a bit of jargon involved in the keris world and i would not argue with you that some of it may be unnecessary, though personally i am not well informed enough to judge which of them those are.

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

I am not implying new rules have to be formulated nor am I stating any new course of action. Everybody does what they do and if I am the only one who raises this issue onto discussion maybe it is me that should change his ways of dealing with vague terminology and excessive name dropping. This is not my house. It is the house of the long standing members with accumulated information who have shared this information with others. I have not shared any information with anybody because I dont have any. Most of my 80 odd postings are more or less replies on the oohs and aahs on the common show and tell postings and a few funny pictures which I´ve included to bring some humor to this place.

Well Jussi, as i see it this is as much your house as anyone else's. We don't rate our members by their level of knowledge here and everyone has a right to their opinion, even the less informed ones. And i have always appreciated your funny pictures.

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

I have - with high hopes - began a few serious threads that have more or less not moved anywhere as members have not wanted to participate on them. So I am merely an infrequent visitor who likes to every now and then sit in the porch looking inside to the big boys playing inside and hoping that they would share something of importance. It happens rarely and maybe it is because I am just a visitor sitting on the porch and not another established big boy. Then again I have a feeling that the big boys are holding back because they feel that the spectators are in it just for the show and tell? Maybe so maybe not.

You will only be an outsider here if you make yourself one. As far as i am concerned we are all students here. Everyone has something to offer IMO and sometimes brilliant theory can come from the keyboards of those with little knowledge, but a quick and logical mind. There are certainly many people here with much greater knowledge of the keris world than i and i respect them for that knowledge. But i think this "established big boys" idea is nonsense and if people seem to be holding back it is more likely that the really don't know any definitive answers.

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

All I kindly ask for is straightforward and easy language when possible. - After all this is an international forum and the language used here should reflect it.
The subject is hard enough to get a grasp of without complicating it unnecessarily with fancy wordings

True enough, this is an international forum, but discussing a weapon which is strictly Malay/Indonesian. So it stands to reason the the terminology of this weapon will be derived from the languages of it's origin. Again i am not sure exactly which words you refer to as the "fancy" ones and what words should be used in their place. I am not unaware that new terms are still forming in regards to keris and that new dhapur and pamor names are likely to appear that have not been heard of by others here before. This does complicate matters, but it is not for me to judge whether or not these newly arising terms are valid or not. Perhaps they are valid for one keris community and not for another. I think we just need to evaluate them as they turn up.