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Originally Posted by celtan
But that's the thing Atlantia,
Puerto Rico, Boston, New York: Extremely restricted gun controls (specially shotguns): High Crime Incidence
Britain, Spain, Japan: Extremely restricted gun controls : Low Crime Incidence (in native populations, inmigrants bring different values)
Ohio: Liberal gun laws: Low Crime Incidence
Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, likewise.
Los Angeles: Liberal Gun Laws: High Crime Incidence
So the crux is not gun control, but the local society mores behind it. In Britain, even drunkards at pubs are usually well behaved.
Draconian gun laws are not the answer. But some control is definitely needed, its only a matter of neither too much nor too little.
Best
M
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Hi Manuel,
Hmmm, I (formerly) worked in nightclubs for 10 years, and the British seem to drink for sport, as if it was an Olympic event and we are in training!
But as for behaviour, it seems to depend on the city/area.
Some places I worked are fairly well behaved, like Torquay! Generally very drunk, but overall good natured.
Portsmouth on the other hand, very drunk, and like the wild west, with fights quickly getting out of hand and spreading to half the pub/club.
All the towns I worked in had occasional stabbings, drunken glassings etc.
Very rarely shootings, in fact I've never seen one with my own eyes in 10 years. There were a couple, that happened at venues I frequented when I wasn't there, but they were very rare.
Thats because they are usually the result of premeditation and not 'impulse'.
I've known people who've been stabbed, and in fact had a kinfe pulled on me once when promoting a club, I've sadly seen many, many people get their faces and even throats cut with glasses, and god only knows how many with injuries from being kicked, punched or smacked with some stool or ashtray. I'm very happy to say that none ever actually died from injuries sustained in a club I worked in, but a couple of times I think it was close, and a guy I worked with was involved in a minor exchange of words with a guy in a pub who then asked him to 'step outside' and then stabbed him 13 times, leaving him critically injured.
My point is that as there are so few guns around, people don't impulsively settle scores with them (generally). I have NO DOUBT that if the people I've seen trying to beat each other senseless or slash each other with a broken glass or bottles had been carrying guns then I'd be recalling all the shootings I've witnessed.
Of course its a bigger issue than impulse arguments, in some British cities where the drugs problem is out of control, or where the kids all think they are 'gangsters' there are regular shootings, but mostly, violent disagreements between average hot headed idiots and even minor criminals are settled with nothing more dramatic than a few punches. sometimes it goes further, like I've mentioned above, but thats not the norm.
You are of course absolutely right that its the underlying causes and peoples willingness to use violence that needs to be addressed, and social factors area to area will of course affect the figures I agree.
But so also do attitudes towards weapons and their use, and a familiarity with guns and the realisation that many others around you are probobly carrying them with no good intention must certainly be a reciepe for more shootings.
I completely agree with your comments, but would add that if guns were routinely carried by more young men in the UK for defence/offence or whatever, then that would also directly (as your figures above show) corrolate to a slight rise in shootings in the areas which already have lower violent crime and a huge rise in those areas which currently suffer from lots of muggings/stabbings/pub fights resulting in actual bodily harm.
Yes, its the intent in the heart of the person that is the problem, but the more efficient the weapon the more likely the result is to be serious, and when drugs or alcohol are mixed with anger, desperation or addiction then the last thing you want thrown into the mix is a weapon that makes anyone a 'big dog'.
So what do you do? You have to weigh up the rights of peaceful law abiding citizens to own weapons against a seeming inability to cure the social factors that mean that if those weapons are also in the wrong hands they'll get used against other law abiding citizens.
In the UK, very few people really 'need' a gun. Certainly the vast majority of pre-ban fullbore firearms were owned for target shooting.
So the ban was hard on club target shooters and collectors. Especially smallbore sports shooters (Olympic hopefuls).
But if it helps alter the attitude towards guns in general, and makes them seem more socially unacceptable, then it can do some good.
Until we can fix the causes. That might be a long way off.
Regards
Gene