Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 30th November 2008, 07:56 PM

As usual, Rsword comes up with some of the most intriguing weapons I have ever seen! and this one is most definitely in that category. I honestly never realized that pattern welded sabre blades existed, though I would expect that sabres would certainly be favored by tribal groups such as suggested by Josh.
The KokoNor region (Qinghai) is virtually a melting pot of ethnic groups with fascinating history reflecting influx of tribes from one of the last nomadic empires, the Dzungars of East Turkistan (from Xinjiang to the NW).

In the mid 18th century, these tribal groups were virtually annhialated by the Manchu armies of China's Qianlong emperor, though of course these Turkic people survived in minority. Also present were others, such as Han Chinese, Mongols and the Tibetans, who had long ruled these regions before the Qing conquest.

The Eastern part of Tibet seems to reflect in its swords much of the Bhutanese style, which I believe is most associated with this hilts basic form, though of course typically with the more ornate pierced steel motif. As always, it is difficult to assign distinct style and form to specific geographic region, but I have always thought of this shape as Bhutanese.

The profile of the blade on this sabre, is as suggested by Mark, most like Indian and seems to me very tulwar like, and truly beautiful in this well executed pattern welded blade with the hallmark Tibetan style hairpin turn.
In "Oriental Armour" (H.Russell Robinson, 1967, p.163-64) it is noted that "..the armour of the Bhutanese falls between that of North India and Tibet, deriving most of its characteristics from the former, and only details from the latter and from China to the northeast".
In describing the helmets, it seems they followed the style from the Indian side of the Himalayas, while adding Mongolian style peak.

It would seem that in its simplistic beauty, this sabre was likely produced for an individual of tribal importance, probably from lower border regions from Eastern Tibet to Sichuan and in the Qinghai province. If its age would support by close examination, it should be noted that the Qianlong emperor of the Manchu's (Qing) who was in power until end of the 18th century, very much favored Indian weapon forms and affectations in these times. Indian style became apparant in numerous Qing weapons, and I wonder if perhaps those more focused influences might have come into play here with a curved sabre with Bhutanese and apparantly Indian features brought together in tribal regions then under Qing dominion.

All best regards,
Jim

30th November 2008, 07:56 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	As usual, Rsword comes up with some of the most intriguing weapons I have ever seen! and this one is most definitely in that category. I honestly never realized that pattern welded sabre blades existed, though I would expect that sabres would certainly be favored by tribal groups such as suggested by Josh. The KokoNor region (Qinghai) is virtually a melting pot of ethnic groups with fascinating history reflecting influx of tribes from one of the last nomadic empires, the Dzungars of East Turkistan (from Xinjiang to the NW). In the mid 18th century, these tribal groups were virtually annhialated by the Manchu armies of China's Qianlong emperor, though of course these Turkic people survived in minority. Also present were others, such as Han Chinese, Mongols and the Tibetans, who had long ruled these regions before the Qing conquest. The Eastern part of Tibet seems to reflect in its swords much of the Bhutanese style, which I believe is most associated with this hilts basic form, though of course typically with the more ornate pierced steel motif. As always, it is difficult to assign distinct style and form to specific geographic region, but I have always thought of this shape as Bhutanese. The profile of the blade on this sabre, is as suggested by Mark, most like Indian and seems to me very tulwar like, and truly beautiful in this well executed pattern welded blade with the hallmark Tibetan style hairpin turn. In "Oriental Armour" (H.Russell Robinson, 1967, p.163-64) it is noted that "..the armour of the Bhutanese falls between that of North India and Tibet, deriving most of its characteristics from the former, and only details from the latter and from China to the northeast". In describing the helmets, it seems they followed the style from the Indian side of the Himalayas, while adding Mongolian style peak. It would seem that in its simplistic beauty, this sabre was likely produced for an individual of tribal importance, probably from lower border regions from Eastern Tibet to Sichuan and in the Qinghai province. If its age would support by close examination, it should be noted that the Qianlong emperor of the Manchu's (Qing) who was in power until end of the 18th century, very much favored Indian weapon forms and affectations in these times. Indian style became apparant in numerous Qing weapons, and I wonder if perhaps those more focused influences might have come into play here with a curved sabre with Bhutanese and apparantly Indian features brought together in tribal regions then under Qing dominion. All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 30th November 2008 at 08:43 PM.