Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 20th December 2007, 06:39 AM

Actually the seller did have good information in acknowledging that this extremely innovative piece was probably fashioned relatively recently. It is indeed reminiscent of a type of guard seen on katars attributed to Srirangam, and termed 'turtle shell guards' (referring to Kurma, the 2nd incarnation of Vishnu) and these katars were of late 16th into the 17th century. This crudely fashioned piece does replicate the beaded seam around the guard seen on the original examples, but the similarity with that and the basic shape stops there (see "Hindu Arms and Ritual", Elgood, p.154 #15.21).

It would be difficult to surmise how this five bladed piece could have been effectively employed as a weapon, however I'm sure many of the martial arts enthusiasts will contest. I am more inclined to think that this may have been an exaggeration of other Srirangam katars of this period which had blades coming out of either side of the guard in addition to the center blade.
Possibly this might have been intended to reflect some symbolic association with the five point star? a votive implement?

The sellers fanciful suggestion that this weapon or its type was used by the 'thuggee' is boldly relying on the esoterica of this rather bizarre cult in India. Actually the 'thuggee' were essentially highwaymen who carried out thier depradations while claiming allegiance to the goddess Kali. These murderous groups actually were quite widespread from eastern to central India, possibly further, and were essentially suppressed by about 1840 by the British. The term 'thuggee' (=Hindu, thief) was how they were termed in period literature, but they were also termed 'phansigars' (Hindu=noose). They murdered thier victim by strangulation with a noose, as it was believed they must not spill blood in the act. The only other implement they used was the distinctive pickaxe to bury the bodies.
Therefore an elaborate 'weapon' like this, even if it could be used as a weapon (unless it was intended to scare the victim to death!) would have nothing to do with thuggee.

20th December 2007, 06:39 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Actually the seller did have good information in acknowledging that this extremely innovative piece was probably fashioned relatively recently. It is indeed reminiscent of a type of guard seen on katars attributed to Srirangam, and termed 'turtle shell guards' (referring to Kurma, the 2nd incarnation of Vishnu) and these katars were of late 16th into the 17th century. This crudely fashioned piece does replicate the beaded seam around the guard seen on the original examples, but the similarity with that and the basic shape stops there (see "Hindu Arms and Ritual", Elgood, p.154 #15.21). It would be difficult to surmise how this five bladed piece could have been effectively employed as a weapon, however I'm sure many of the martial arts enthusiasts will contest. I am more inclined to think that this may have been an exaggeration of other Srirangam katars of this period which had blades coming out of either side of the guard in addition to the center blade. Possibly this might have been intended to reflect some symbolic association with the five point star? a votive implement? The sellers fanciful suggestion that this weapon or its type was used by the 'thuggee' is boldly relying on the esoterica of this rather bizarre cult in India. Actually the 'thuggee' were essentially highwaymen who carried out thier depradations while claiming allegiance to the goddess Kali. These murderous groups actually were quite widespread from eastern to central India, possibly further, and were essentially suppressed by about 1840 by the British. The term 'thuggee' (=Hindu, thief) was how they were termed in period literature, but they were also termed 'phansigars' (Hindu=noose). They murdered thier victim by strangulation with a noose, as it was believed they must not spill blood in the act. The only other implement they used was the distinctive pickaxe to bury the bodies. Therefore an elaborate 'weapon' like this, even if it could be used as a weapon (unless it was intended to scare the victim to death!) would have nothing to do with thuggee.