Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Gustav · Today, 10:31 AM

RobT, by "Cenegan" you obviously mean Cenangan. Terminology depends on time and the linguistic/social group, that uses that terminology. My feeling at the moment is, term "Cenangan"could be something of an umbrella term for simpler hilts of related form, and possibly could be not older then 100 years, likely younger. This particular hilt looks quite like a Tapukan which has lost its hair wrapping and subsequently lacquered.

The term Sampiran - do Balinese really use it nowadays? If yes, I doubt, they do for longer then about 30 years at most, as it quite surely comes from peninsular Malay Keris community/English language writers about Keris from Malay states. The boat/ship iconology in the cross piece of sheath is stressed all the time, but word Sampir doesn't have such connotation.

According to Neka the cross piece of this second Keris would be Gegodohan, as Neka in his book seems not to distinguish between Gegodohan and Bebelatungan - he even don't use word Bebelatungan.

I am not sure if the crosspiece and the long part originally belong together, as the proportion seems to be a bit off. But even if it would be so, that's not important.

Alan, what is the difference between Bebatun Pohan and Bebelatungan in your opinion?

Today, 10:31 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,321	RobT, by "Cenegan" you obviously mean Cenangan. Terminology depends on time and the linguistic/social group, that uses that terminology. My feeling at the moment is, term "Cenangan"could be something of an umbrella term for simpler hilts of related form, and possibly could be not older then 100 years, likely younger. This particular hilt looks quite like a Tapukan which has lost its hair wrapping and subsequently lacquered. The term Sampiran - do Balinese really use it nowadays? If yes, I doubt, they do for longer then about 30 years at most, as it quite surely comes from peninsular Malay Keris community/English language writers about Keris from Malay states. The boat/ship iconology in the cross piece of sheath is stressed all the time, but word Sampir doesn't have such connotation. According to Neka the cross piece of this second Keris would be Gegodohan, as Neka in his book seems not to distinguish between Gegodohan and Bebelatungan - he even don't use word Bebelatungan. I am not sure if the crosspiece and the long part originally belong together, as the proportion seems to be a bit off. But even if it would be so, that's not important. Alan, what is the difference between Bebatun Pohan and Bebelatungan in your opinion? Last edited by Gustav; Today at 12:16 PM.