Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce
G'day Jim,
Yes the scrolling bars are basically the same shape and may derive from honeysuckle as well or perhaps both represent something unrelated to honeysuckle? I am not sure who came up with the first honeysuckle label?
The scarf welds appear to be quite common and I imagine it has something to do with an iron tang being less likely to break? Personally I have always thought that the ricasso is a bad place to place a weld and the smith would have to make damn sure that it is a very good weld.
Cheers,
Bryce
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It is hard to know exactly when this term came into descriptive use toward the hilts of these British swords, and as always Victorian descriptions in observations often brought in colorful romanticized terms. Honeysuckle apparently gained popular attention in those times pertaining to some superstitious beliefs, but the designs using the scrolled designs were already well in use in the second half 18th c. with late baroque styling.
The first use of the term I know of personally was toward the hilt of the M1796 British heavy cavalry officers sword (undress) which also had the pierced 'ladder' design in the upper part of the pierced bowl. The term also referred to the similar hilt design of the heavy cavalry M1821/29 pattern.
It is interesting that the heavy cavalry term was not known or used in the time of these dragoon officers swords we are discussing (1750s-80s) and in 1756 units of 'light' dragoons were created. In 1788, reorganizing of cavalry units was completed and the units of light dragoons (becoming light cavalry and hussars later) and the other units were termed 'dragoon guards' later heavy cavalry.
What I had not realized is that there were no 'heavy cavalry' units in this period 1750-80 as such, so dragoon officers seem to have had pretty much 'carte blanche' in their selection of personal swords, as seen by the examples shown in our discussion.
That is perhaps why the designation of '1788 heavy cavalry officers sword' is such an apocryphal designation.
The lionhead example I posted has similar example in design shown in Southwick (a silver hilt) and noted Dru Drury as cutler.....while mine appears marketed by John Read, a Dublin outfitter, so it seems the designs were not limited to one cutler.
In measuring the blade, it is 38" so in line with the very long blades of 'heavy dragoons' popular in 1760s-70s.
On the blade, there are distinct marking upper part of blade near forte, an F and near it, what remains of a '3'.
Hoping I can find what these might mean.
The scarf welds you noticed are also a distinct curiosity, and I am with you, why would this be done at the join with the tang? There are certain swords in Oman which had longer tangs welded on because they were fitted with longer cylindrical hilts, but that does not seem the issue here. Also, these are remarkably long blades, so clearly not cut down.
Pics are the M1796 heavy cavalry officers sword, and the M1829 heavy cavalry officers sword; both with termed 'honeysuckle hilts'.