Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Ottoman/Albanian Khanjar scabbard markings

mariusgmioc · 19th August 2023, 08:47 PM

I believe the designation of these daggers as Albanian or Balkan is completely wrong!

The turgha stamp on this one points towards a TURKISH origin, and not Albanian.
Moreover the style of these daggers has nothing to do with Albanian traditional motifs.
Last, but not least, Albania had no tradition in producing weapons and there are no known historical examples of this type of "albanian daggers" or anything similar BEFORE the Turkish Ottoman occupation.

So, I am convinced this is a TURKISH hançer, either made in Turkey (most certainly because of the Turgha punch mark) or made somewhere else in the Ottoman empire by a Turkish swordsmith.

I have seen many other types of swords, daggers, or even yataghans atributed to Greece, Albania, Bosnia or generally "the Balkans" that are typically Turkish. I believe this to be a major error that continues to be propagated and amplified through anecdotal means.

Even Elgood in his book "The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan Neighbors in the Ottoman Period" presents many typical Turkish weapons as being Greek or from the Balkans simply based on anecdotal evidence. Namely because the owner of the blade said so... Completely unscientific, unprofessional and misleading!

So, is a yataghan that was made by a Turkish swordsmith that moved along with the Turkish army and was stationed in Greece, Greek?! Or can we say that the yataghans produced by him are Greek?!

Because this is exactly what happened in most cases. The massive Ottoman army was accompanied by many Turkish swordsmiths when it conquered and occupied Greece and the Balkans. And these Turkish swordsmiths established some production centers in these occupied regions and continued to supply weapons to the Ottoman army stationed there.

While there are some, very few, typical Ottoman weapons like yataghans or kilijes that have clear stylistic particularities that allow them to be confidently attributed to Greece or the Balkans, the majority are not, and should be considered as Turkish, if there are no clearly distinguishable features that distinguishes them from the ones made in "mainland Turkey."

19th August 2023, 08:47 PM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I believe the designation of these daggers as Albanian or Balkan is completely wrong! The turgha stamp on this one points towards a TURKISH origin, and not Albanian. Moreover the style of these daggers has nothing to do with Albanian traditional motifs. Last, but not least, Albania had no tradition in producing weapons and there are no known historical examples of this type of "albanian daggers" or anything similar BEFORE the Turkish Ottoman occupation. So, I am convinced this is a TURKISH hançer, either made in Turkey (most certainly because of the Turgha punch mark) or made somewhere else in the Ottoman empire by a Turkish swordsmith. I have seen many other types of swords, daggers, or even yataghans atributed to Greece, Albania, Bosnia or generally "the Balkans" that are typically Turkish. I believe this to be a major error that continues to be propagated and amplified through anecdotal means. Even Elgood in his book "The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan Neighbors in the Ottoman Period" presents many typical Turkish weapons as being Greek or from the Balkans simply based on anecdotal evidence. Namely because the owner of the blade said so... Completely unscientific, unprofessional and misleading! So, is a yataghan that was made by a Turkish swordsmith that moved along with the Turkish army and was stationed in Greece, Greek?! Or can we say that the yataghans produced by him are Greek?! Because this is exactly what happened in most cases. The massive Ottoman army was accompanied by many Turkish swordsmiths when it conquered and occupied Greece and the Balkans. And these Turkish swordsmiths established some production centers in these occupied regions and continued to supply weapons to the Ottoman army stationed there. While there are some, very few, typical Ottoman weapons like yataghans or kilijes that have clear stylistic particularities that allow them to be confidently attributed to Greece or the Balkans, the majority are not, and should be considered as Turkish, if there are no clearly distinguishable features that distinguishes them from the ones made in "mainland Turkey." Last edited by mariusgmioc; 20th August 2023 at 08:42 AM.