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Old 12th May 2006, 12:53 AM   #30
A. G. Maisey
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Quote:-

"--- I’m unaware of the earlier type you referred to. In case you have some guidance of its whereabouts, I would love to take a look.---"

I claim no knowledge of the form of the implement known in Old Javanese as "wedung". I know only that the word "wedung" in Old Javanese refers to a type of axe.
I apologise for being insufficiently clear in my expression.

I have no problem with the transmigration of styles of tools or other objects, however, an object such as the one under discussion is most likely from the common people, and is one of a class of objects, all bearing similarities, but all having stylistic differences one from the other. The form of some of these objects can still be recognised in current tools; the form of other of these objects seems to be unique to the object.

Hindu culture entered Jawa, and other parts of Maritime South East Asia through the courts. There was no migration of Hindu settlers. There was limited trade contact up until the end of the first millenium AD, and these traders would have sometimes had to stay in coastal regions waiting for the wind to change before they could begin a return journey. So, first contact was probably through traders, followed by Brahmins who probably arrived in the courts at the invitation of the rulers.

After about 1000AD there was increasing trade contact, not only with the Indian sub-continent, but also with China , the middle east, and other parts of South East Asia.

The object under discussion probably dates from the period prior to 1500, so, yes, it could be the result of influence from some outside culture, however, I submit that to determine this with any degree of certainty at this remove could prove to be almost impossible. Consider:- an archaic iron tool of unknown age, unknown use, from an unknown location ( yes, I know:- "East Jawa", but where in East Jawa? And it is now irretreviably removed from its precise point of discovery); no known association with a court culture.
This object could well be the production of a single smith for a single customer; it could be a type that was used in one small area; we do not have fifty or a hundred of these objects all of precisely the same design, we have one, which is from a class of similar objects.

As stated above, there was no close contact between settlers from the Indian Sub-Continent, and Jawa. Hindu culture entered Jawa through the courts. If this object is the product of influence from a culture outside Jawa, it is more likely to be through the medium of trade than through the medium of direct transference of design from one person to another.

However,whatever we may hypothesise in the case of this implement, it is pure speculation that cannot be supported with evidence or logical argument.

Quote:-

" I do see a very strong correlation with weapons displayed on 9th C and 10th C durga statues in java and their “cousins” in India in the same time. As mentioned before the Chackra among others is clearly visible. Is this maybe a sign that some of those weapons were indeed “migrated”, rather then developed locally?"

There can be no doubt that Indian weapon forms are to be found in Javanese carvings, both statuary and relief, however, bear in mind the subject matter of the carvings, and bear in mind the connection with court culture.

Early Javanese writings do not deal with the common people, only with the courts. Cultural focus is on the courts, so what we have are two separate, but related cultural entities. A reading of Theodore Pigeaud: "Java in the Fourteenth Century" could assist with an understanding of this.

Quote:-

" As you mentioned it would indeed be very useful to chop off small wood. If this would indeed be the main purpose and people still need to chop small wood, then why did it no longer exist in the last few centuries ?"

For the same reasons that many objects in many places throughout the world have disappeared with the passing of time.

In respect of the matter of development of the form of the modern keris.

Nothing in what I wrote in "Origin" was implied. I wrote precisely what I meant to say. The changes that took place in the fore runners of the modern keris were part of a process that occurred over a period of time. These changes took place as most changes do,gradually, and to accommodate changes in the environment. Those environmental changes included such things as societal changes and technological changes.

The question has been once again been raised as to the possibility of origin of the keris being somewhere other than Jawa.

For those who consider this to be a serious possibility I encourage them to undertake the research necessary to establish this.

Until a place of origin other than Jawa is established, I believe that we must accept the available evidence that the keris did originate in Jawa. Actually, I thought this had been accepted by serious students of the keris long before I ever wrote on the subject.
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