Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 17th January 2005, 09:01 PM

Hi Fernando,
Its been a while, good to hear from you again!
The best resource on these weapons is probably "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" by George Neumann (Stackpole, 1973) and this has been a standard reference for not only American but British, French and German weapons of 17th-18th centuries.
Several examples of these are discussed on p.65,and it is noted that these brass hilted hangers are often termed 'the pattern 1742' by collectors because they are visible in the Duke of Cumberland's "Representation of Clothing of His Majestys Forces", published that year. Neumann notes that several variations are known including many with blades from cutlers of latter 18th century, suggesting of course remounting or later manufacture of the form. There was actually not an official pattern 1742, and actually many of these were actually made in Germany for England, made similar to thier own infantry hangers (pointed out by Neumann p.65). He notes in caption that these heart shaped guard hangers date c.1725-1750. Some of these have the tightly woven wire wrap seen on smallswords (typically gone on most surviving examples), while some have accelerated spiral fluting in cast brass.
One example shown (fig.11.S) has marked German blade.

Examples of this heart shape guard with two side branches added have been labeled the pattern 1751, again from illustration of a grenadier of the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards, from paintings by David Morier, again, attributed to that year (see Neumann fig.12.S).

British regulations for swords did not officially begin until 1796, so these 'pattern assignments' are clearly collectors interpretations, as in the case of similar attributions to other British military swords of the 18th century.

If you would please post illustration OK?

While this is not officially 'ethnographic' it is certainly associated. The military swords of many of these countries often have played an important part in the development of ethnographic forms, even if only the use of the blades.

Thank you for posting this, and again, great to hear from you!!
Best regards,
Jim

17th January 2005, 09:01 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Hi Fernando, Its been a while, good to hear from you again! The best resource on these weapons is probably "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" by George Neumann (Stackpole, 1973) and this has been a standard reference for not only American but British, French and German weapons of 17th-18th centuries. Several examples of these are discussed on p.65,and it is noted that these brass hilted hangers are often termed 'the pattern 1742' by collectors because they are visible in the Duke of Cumberland's "Representation of Clothing of His Majestys Forces", published that year. Neumann notes that several variations are known including many with blades from cutlers of latter 18th century, suggesting of course remounting or later manufacture of the form. There was actually not an official pattern 1742, and actually many of these were actually made in Germany for England, made similar to thier own infantry hangers (pointed out by Neumann p.65). He notes in caption that these heart shaped guard hangers date c.1725-1750. Some of these have the tightly woven wire wrap seen on smallswords (typically gone on most surviving examples), while some have accelerated spiral fluting in cast brass. One example shown (fig.11.S) has marked German blade. Examples of this heart shape guard with two side branches added have been labeled the pattern 1751, again from illustration of a grenadier of the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards, from paintings by David Morier, again, attributed to that year (see Neumann fig.12.S). British regulations for swords did not officially begin until 1796, so these 'pattern assignments' are clearly collectors interpretations, as in the case of similar attributions to other British military swords of the 18th century. If you would please post illustration OK? While this is not officially 'ethnographic' it is certainly associated. The military swords of many of these countries often have played an important part in the development of ethnographic forms, even if only the use of the blades. Thank you for posting this, and again, great to hear from you!! Best regards, Jim