Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 25th December 2016, 09:24 PM

Kai, "nya" on the end of a word should be read as "the", or "its", so:- "the pesi", but this of course is quite wrong if read in isolation, there should be another phrase or sentence before the quoted text that makes it clear that this sentence refers to the metuk.

"biasanya" is better as "usually" or "normally"

"atau tombak-tombak yang mutunya tidak begitu tinggi." = (literally) "or spears which quality its not so high" = "or spears which are not of a high quality".
Many more ways to express this idea in English, no need to be a perfect translation to get the general idea.
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Kai, a lot of the "mystical/magical" beliefs associated with keris are in fact very recent, superficial research indicates that many such beliefs are no more than a couple of hundred years old, and date from colonial times, I have heard many Javanese people express the opinion that in fact many of these beliefs were generated in one way or another by the presence of the Dutch.

My personal opinion for the existence of keris that are gonjo iras is that dependent upon available material and the degree of technological advancement, it is much quicker, much, much easier, and enormously cheaper to make a gonjo iras keris than it is to make a keris with a gonjo. I have made several keris, and I can assure you, the time involved in making and fitting a gonjo is far in excess of the time it would have taken me to forge the gonjo into the blade.

The metuk iras probably followed the idea of the gonjo, mostly after relevant symbolism started to be attached to keris construction. In Bali I don't think the separate metuk ever became popular, in fact I cannot recall having seen a Bali tombak with a separate metuk.

Make no mistake about it:- the keris is a magical object, but that magic in its true sense has almost nothing to do with the popular idea of magic that is associated with the keris. This popular idea seems to have its roots firstly in the influence of Sufic beliefs that took root in Central Jawa during the 1500's, and secondly in the influence of the Dutch colonialists. We need to look to Bali to understand the true magic of the keris.

25th December 2016, 09:24 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,752	Kai, "nya" on the end of a word should be read as "the", or "its", so:- "the pesi", but this of course is quite wrong if read in isolation, there should be another phrase or sentence before the quoted text that makes it clear that this sentence refers to the metuk. "biasanya" is better as "usually" or "normally" "atau tombak-tombak yang mutunya tidak begitu tinggi." = (literally) "or spears which quality its not so high" = "or spears which are not of a high quality". Many more ways to express this idea in English, no need to be a perfect translation to get the general idea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kai, a lot of the "mystical/magical" beliefs associated with keris are in fact very recent, superficial research indicates that many such beliefs are no more than a couple of hundred years old, and date from colonial times, I have heard many Javanese people express the opinion that in fact many of these beliefs were generated in one way or another by the presence of the Dutch. My personal opinion for the existence of keris that are gonjo iras is that dependent upon available material and the degree of technological advancement, it is much quicker, much, much easier, and enormously cheaper to make a gonjo iras keris than it is to make a keris with a gonjo. I have made several keris, and I can assure you, the time involved in making and fitting a gonjo is far in excess of the time it would have taken me to forge the gonjo into the blade. The metuk iras probably followed the idea of the gonjo, mostly after relevant symbolism started to be attached to keris construction. In Bali I don't think the separate metuk ever became popular, in fact I cannot recall having seen a Bali tombak with a separate metuk. Make no mistake about it:- the keris is a magical object, but that magic in its true sense has almost nothing to do with the popular idea of magic that is associated with the keris. This popular idea seems to have its roots firstly in the influence of Sufic beliefs that took root in Central Jawa during the 1500's, and secondly in the influence of the Dutch colonialists. We need to look to Bali to understand the true magic of the keris.